has anyone ever successfully forced the issue??!

[dot1]

sigh... our ds is 3 1/2 and is still in nappies. He knows when he's going to wee and poo, now asks to be changed after each wee because he doesn't like it in his nappy and is driving us MAD because he refuses point blank to even try using the potty or toilet. We've done everything to try to get him trained - star charts, chocolate jar, promises of new toys, tickets to see Thomas TTE etc.etc. But we're reaching the crunch time where he's starting pre-school in September and needs to be dry during the day! He's incredibly bright and thoughtful and has told us he doesn't want to be a big boy, he wants to stay a baby and so will never wear pants.

So, we're thinking about going cold turkey in a few weeks time and basically telling him one morning that that's it - no nappies - regardless of how much he screams, tantrums etc (and he will...). Has anyone else ever got to this stage and has it worked (quickly....!!!)??

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Do you ever find the child is too young to start? I ask because everything I have ever read on the subject says wait until your child shows an interest, but none of mine ever did. As a consequence, I potty trained ds1 a month before he turned 3, ds2 at 2.8, and dd (who had a bowel problem but would have been ready earlier otherwise) at 3. I initiated the whole thing and did it much as you describe and in about the same timescale.

Now I am faced with ds3 who is 2.4 but has a place at playgroup in September for which he has to be potty trained. I know I should start the process and get it over and done with, but I loathe the strain of potty training. He shows no signs of being ready for potty training just as the others didn't.

Do you think I leave it late? At what age do you decided your charges should be potty trained or do you wait until the parents express an interest in getting it done?

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hi i am another cm who potty trains them.i have found most of the kids i have looked after i have potty trained around 2nd birthday.Day nurseries potty train them too my friend runs a nursery she potty trains them and catches the parents on ctv camera on stairs taking nappies off them.i always try even if they are not interested as they love all the extra attention and praise they get.

Oh gosh, I have left it late then!

In my defence, ds1 was very slow to speak and communicate his needs so I don't see how he could have participated much earlier than he did. Ds3 at least has the words poo and wee now so I suppose I ought to get started.

My childminder sent DD1 home aged 2.7months or suchlike, telling me firmly 'right, pants from now on'. I was terrified but slavishly obeyed (I obeyed her when she told me to take my driving test too - she said she wouldn't have DD1 back in the house till I'd booked it) and it did work.

Dot, just thinking - would something else babyish help DS1 stay in his Peter Pan state while conceding the need for pants? Cuddly toys? Dummies? Anything?

lonelymum, I have to say I am confused about the early/late debate too. Everything I've read suggests leaving it later until they are ready, but I think it is also accepted that a generation or two back, children were trained much earlier.

i think the view I have come to is that if you are prepared to have a regular potty/toilet routine, then you can do it quite early because you are basically timing their pottying. I think that's what I was doing with ds1 when I 'trained' him at 2.4. he would rarely have an accident at nursery - they had a very regular toileting routine and he could cope with the intervals between toilet trips no bother. It was AGES though before he could anticipate and reliably ask for or take himself to the toilet - probably closer to 3. So although we didn't have too many accidents, he was really having his toiletting managed for him. I don't particularly regret starting earlier (it saved an awful lot of nappy changes! and he took to it very easily, was regularly and happily using the potty before he was 2) but I'm sceptical that you can get them to the point where they are asking and managing it themselves, befoer they are physically capable.

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MI - that's a good thought - although we've only recently got rid of the dummy so there's no chance he's getting that back! Might ask him if there's something similar he wants that his little brother has - a cuddly toy or something... I told him tonight he could still keep wearing his nappies at night, just like a baby, but ironically he said he doesn't need to wear nappies at night because he doesn't wee at night - which is true!!

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shocking business!

About 9 months ago we bought a big glass jar and I went to Thorntons and filled it with yummy wonderful chocolates and sweets. Ds is seriously addicted to sweets and chocolates so I was convinced this would do the trick. He tried a couple of times but couldn't wee, then didn't bother.

We've got the throw the sweets out this month as they've reached their best before date..!

(PS - we put the jar in the bathroom right by the loo and told him every time he did anything on the toilet he could have something from the jar!)

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cod - I completely agree, I will "give gin" (but possibly only to myself...)

how about inviting his friends round and giving them the chocolates when they use the potty? then he might start feeling he's missing out?

I think something which enables him to feel small and cuddly and babyish probably is very important, you know. DD1 was terribly insistent after her sister was born that she was a baby not a big girl.

ooh - not a bad idea! they all use the toilet now, so could get agreement from their parents to feed them chocolate whenever they use the loo..!

elliott, I have just seen your post and I agree with it entirely. Thanks for clarifying my mind! I do think that a lot of children who are potty trained early are simpy being told when to go to the toilet and that it is often not until they are nearer 3 that they can decide for themselves when they need to go. That is why I have always left it until later, because I am not prepared to be continually telling my child when to go to the toilet (I often forget to go myself so I would be hopeless at reminding someone else!)

Of course some children are more in control than others so I do not wish to upset anyone here who started earlier, but I just wanted to say thanks Elliott for clarifying what I have always subconsciously believed.

Dot1, my dd was very reluctant too and didn't seem concerned whilst potty training to do it all over the floor/in knickers and just refused to do it in the potty. In the end I said she wasn't allowed to wear a dress again (she hates trousers) until she'd kept her knickers dry for a whole day. This really worked and whenever she got lazy I'd instantly change her back into trousers. I knew she could do it, we just had to find the thing that would make her WANT to do it. I'm not suggesting you dress your ds in a dress and only let him wear trousers when he keeps his pants dry, but is there any similar incentive that you could use? We justified it by saying that I didn't want all her pretty dresses to get ruined so that she didn't feel like we were being too aggressive towards her - I didn't want it to feel like a punishment, more of an unavoidable consequence of wetting herself. I'm sure there will be lots of disapproval of this method, but I was at the end of my tether, with her wetting herself up to 20 times a day - this is no joke, she'd do part of the wee then stop it and once i'd put fresh knickers on she'd let the rest out - and I had a ten week old baby at the time.

or if friends' parents don't want them fed chocolates, you could have a "house rule" - anytime anyone including grownups uses the toilet they get a chocolate! that way you and dp get to eat the chocs. my dds love rules which adults and children have to follow alike.

I do worry I am fixating on the thorntons chocolates here rather than the actual problem - sorry

you know - I was thinking about that idea aswell, Fennel!! And dp and I have been sooooo good not stealing from the chocolate jar! We've told ds they're nearing their sell by date and will have to be thrown away, so we might as well go for scoffing it all instead!

I wouldn't throw them away whatever you do. A sell by date expiry doesn't necessarily mean they are inedible. Send them to me if you can't bring yourself to eat them!

Sorry, realised, like fennel, that I am focussing rather more on the chocs now than potty training.