Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

DS dangerously violent at school and getting worse...me, devastated and bewildered

44 replies

mummery · 25/08/2009 12:51

I wasn't sure where to post this but decided on 'Parenting' as clearly it is me who needs to do something but I have no clue what.

I am a name-changer, part-time poster, long-time member though (several years).

My DS is 6 and an only child. Since nursery he has had behavioural problems in social or classroom situations which unfortunately seem to manifest as aggression towards other kids. He has hit, kicked, bitten, throttled other children, threatened to kill them, and worst of all within a week of the new term starting (we are in Scotland) has attacked another child with a piece of school equipment and left a huge and horrible mark.

You are probably all thinking, 'what the hell have you done to this kid to make him act like this'. I'd likely think the same, but I honestly don't know where I've gone wrong. At home DS is largely a wonderful child with great manners, he is bright and creative, helpful and loving. We spend most of our time just the two of us as his dad lives abroad and I have no family nearby. However we are not 'shut-ins' and we get out and about to theatre, cinema, activity classes, parks and outdoors activities. I rarely need to exercise any more discipline than a stern talking to which at home is usually for reasons of not listening or answering back or being rude. He does seem to have the idea that he runs the show sometimes and when in a bad mood can speak to me rudely and nastily with rather a mystifying degree of arrogance for one so young.

His other identifiable troubles are a speech delay (had 2 yrs of therapy which is 'on a break' at the moment and he is coherent to most people if they concentrate) and possibly some degree of hyperactivity, this has not been professionally diagnosed but learning support at school has noticed noise-making, twitching, constant physical movement, and at home he is literally bouncing from the minute he gets up. He also suffers from massive mood swings from one minute praising himself at being excellent at everything to the next calling himself 'fat' and 'stupid' and wanting to kill himself and hitting himself on the face.

I am at an utter loss what to do with him in terms of his behaviour at school. I spent the whole of last year standing alone in the playground at drop off and pick up times because DS is known as 'the bad kid' and is the subject of parental gossip. I've been dropped by my one friend at the school who (prior to the dropping) kept me informed about just how much other mums were talking about both me and DS (= a lot). DS has no friends at all, he got one party invite the whole of last year, only for me to have to remove him from the games after he punched 2 other kids. I've had several parents come up to me to complain in person. What do I say to them? DS is punished in school (last term was kept in at all break times for several weeks, as he posed such a danger to others) and at home with restrictions on his privileges eg after this latest episode he is having no TV, PSP or sweets (and before you ask - no, he doesn't live on sugar, he has something like a kinder egg after dinner or a mini packet of haribo to take to the park. He doesn't even have concentrated juice). What else can I do? Clearly since it keeps happening the other mums must think I don't give a toss, or don't react, or maybe that I take him home and laugh about it afterwards. But I honestly don't know HOW else I can react, or what else I can do. I sit and talk with DS over and over about the importance of being kind, listening, thinking about other people's feelings. I ask him to empathise with how the other kids are feeling when he hurts them, and repeatedly, repeatedly tell him to go straight to an adult if he is finding a situation troublesome, instead of just thumping the other party. He seems to be able to relate well to what I'm saying in his moments of calm but when he is back at school and in a challenging situation all the theory disappears. And what DS perceives as a 'challenging situation' is often nothing at all. I've seen him burst into tears or lash out because someone has quite innocently brushed past him or bumped into him gently in a queue. He has no compunction about hitting smaller kids either and even has a problem with babies looking at him (sends him into growly sulks).

The school has worked closely with DS and myself, he has 2 learning support teachers plus what is virtually a 1-on-1 classroom assistant who also organises structured play for him at breaktimes. I have had regular meetings with all relevant staff members and have been consulted regularly on a number of different strategies which have no really worked. So it's not as if I/ we have been passively observing for the last 2 yrs. The school has now referred DS to an educational psychologist and an occupational therapist but I wonder if I should be heading to my own GP about this? I feel extremely vulnerable as a single parent as everyone's first thought will inevitably be, 'How is this child being raised?' I'm terrified he's going to be thrown out of school or after school club (I wouldn't be able to work even without after school club) and even more terrified that they are going to find something so wrong in how I'm parenting that SS will be involved and he'll be taken away from me.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far.

(I should probably point out that he's never been called fat (he isn't) or stupid (isn't that either) and I have no clue where he's picked up ideas about killing himself or others. He's a great sleeper and a good eater and has a pretty good diet. I'm not a perfect mum and I yell at him sometimes when no doubt I should be speaking in a calm and resolute manner, but in all honestly have not had to yell all summer, he's been that lovely while off school. I'd so hoped this would be a fresh start but it's already worse than ever.)

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
bargainhuntingbetty · 25/08/2009 14:05

Mummery, just wanted to add that you are entitled to friends no matter what your circumstances etc are. And as you and ds come as a package friends should accept that. Maybe get you and ds into something that could be for both of you. I am in Livingston if you are anywhere near there.

mummery · 25/08/2009 14:07

The school have been ok I think. He has one learning support teacher who is fantastic, very knowledgable and perceptive, does not overreact to things and also thinks DS is fundamentally great, which helps a lot. The others are not so great but probably do their best. Of course they have to deal with all the parents coming in saying my DS is 'bullying' their kids and that's a serious accusation requiring a corresponding response from them. In reality it is nothing like that, DS does not have the sophistication of thought to bully anyone, everything he does is totally in-the-moment.

Unfortunately I think the type of environment he needs just isn't going to happen. He's not going to get one-on-one education or smaller class sizes or an education with minimal classroom time or more time at home with me. He's at an ordinary state primary.

OP posts:
mummery · 25/08/2009 14:20

Thanks to everyone who's replied it's been a real help. I've just made a GP appointment for next week although I don't think they'll be able to get an assessment any more quickly than the school can.

Re. playground gossip, part of me thinks that it's really none of their business how I'm disciplining my child, but another part wants to write some kind of open letter explaining that I know there's a problem and really, really am trying to solve it. For now though I just stand to the side and don't make eye contact with anyone lol. Contrary to what I've observed on mumsnet 'RL' mums can be quite damning. Bearing in mind that nobody in that playground has had so much as a three minute conversation with me, ever.

Off to do the school run, thanks again for your time, it's so much appreciated.

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

colditz · 25/08/2009 14:35

mummery, a lot of his behavior sounds like ds1, who is also six, and who is being assessed for autism. I hate to say this, but bluntly, your six year old sounds more severe than mine. You NEED help, you NEED support, and no, you're not causing it. It's probably the stress of having to interact with other people that is causing it. Nobody is going to take your son away, he's more likely to get an adult in the classroom in with his at all times.

You need to speak to CAAMHS - i don't know where your local one will be, try asking the school.

I think this is highly unlikely to be your fault. But I would try less emphasis on empathy, because if this IS autism, it's the hardest thing for him to 'get'. He needs an automatic immediate and consistant consequence that he doesn't like - for example, I bribe my six year old to tidy up with computer time - bad behavior leads to no computer time. my son doesn't GET other people and he doesn't care about them, and I can't make him - so telling him about how other people feel affects his behavior not one jot.

It's time for you to throw the "good parenting" hand book away - it doesn't fucking work on kids like ours, as I've found to mine and my son's detriment. Do what works. Bribe with chocolate buttons if that's what helps.

PS you sound like a geat mum.

lou031205 · 25/08/2009 15:19

I totally agree with everyone who has posted re: Autism. Also, colditz hit the nail on the head. Normal parenting techniques are not always appropriate for children who have ASD.

You need to push for a Statutory Assessment, or whatever the equivalent is in Scotland. You need to push for the school to put measures in place to a) protect other children, b) prevent your DS from lashing out and c) enable your DS to cope with the school day.

It may help to speak to peachy - put a call out on the SN board. She has faced similar and may have some tips.

catrionasmum · 25/08/2009 15:39

i would definitely see your GP - locally they would refer to CAMHS( child and adolescent mental health services) - not as scary as they sound- psychologists and psychiatrists but all have seen every kind of behavior in kids and families and in my experience can usually offer some suggestions and will liaise with school too.
You are right health visitors don't see school age children but school nursing services take on their role and should certainly be involved for help and support and will liaise both with school and camhs.
hope it all helps and works the same in scotland - they may have different names though. Your GP should at least be able tooffer ou some support as well, - this is not something to shoulder alone .
If your GP is not helpful see another one- most of us are quite human!

mollyroger · 25/08/2009 15:46

just want to add my sympathy and a hug if you need one.
I have similar problems with my 8-yr-old. I almost wish he had a dx, but he doesn't - just a trigger temper.
I know how it feels to have parents talking about you etc. And the party thing
And yet, ds really wants friends, he just doesn't realise how his behaviour pushes people away. He is also angelic at home.

louii · 25/08/2009 15:57

Some very helpful posts from everyone, ASD is what immediately jumped into my mind. I have worked with many children who have had varying degrees of ASD.

Where about in Scotland are you, i think the services vary considerably depending on area.

You are doing everything you can and try not to take it to heart with the other mums.

msrisotto · 25/08/2009 16:09

A SENCO is a special educational needs co ordinator
TA = teaching assistant, just so you know

spottyface · 25/08/2009 16:55

Mummery, have a hug.

I was very much like your son as a kid, and my Mum must have felt awful because her idea of "good parenting" never worked.

After 35 years of feeling miserable because I was different, I was recently diagnosed with moderate autism spectrum disorder. Knowing earlier and finding ways around things might have made my life rather easier, and my career rather more successful.

Autism or asperger's syndrome doesn't necessarily have to involve obsessive behaviour. Have a look at the National Autistic Society's website

Assuming that your assessment of lack of mental sophistication and living very much in the moment is spot on.

spottyface · 25/08/2009 16:57

Sorry, that last sentence should have read "Assuming that some Autism Spectrum Disorder is what is going on here, your assessment of lack of mental sophistication and living very much in the moment is spot on."

SpawnChorus · 25/08/2009 17:02

Oh gosh you poor thing! It sounds incredibly hard. I'm glad you're getting some sage advice from the wise MNers Good luck with it all.

Overmydeadbody · 25/08/2009 17:23

A Senco is the school's Special Educational Needs Co-Ordinator. Every school has one. Speak to your's.

A TA is a Teacher's Assistant.

Hope that helps.

Funnily enough DS was also obsessed with the ELC washing machine and went through two of them! He still goes into ELC now just to have a play with it

You really should go and speak to your DS's school SENCO tomorrow, they should already have a policy in place for dealing with his behaviour, and if not, ask for one, and ask that you be kept informed on it and any changes/adaptations thery make to help your DS.

I really feel for you.

juicy12 · 25/08/2009 17:47

What a sad situation. Just a thought, but have you ever had his hearing tested? A lot of children - esp boys - suffer from undiagnosed Glue Ear for years, which can really affect their behaviour. Being at home with you, whose voice he's used to and can understand easily is one thing, but being in situations where he can't understand everything would be v stressful and could manifest itself in some of his behaviours. Might be worth ruling it out anyway, even if you've never noticed a problem with hearing before. Good luck.

labyrinthine · 25/08/2009 21:06

you've had great advice so far but just wanted to say about the approach to other mums,imo it would be better to be open and forthright about the problems,say he is under assessment and apologise for any injuries~make sure the school supervise him fully.
ime most mums get worked up because the are worried about what might happen to their own children and because they might think the parent is not trying to control their child~ so if they know you are making every effort that will help.

DidEinsteinsMum · 25/08/2009 21:25

I feel for you 6 months ago this it what i had from ds' nursery. Was half a half diagnosis of Aspergers [they dont diagnose under 5]. What you describe is almost what exactly what happens. Does he cope with new people and changes?

In my experience the GP route is pretty pointless on the basis that the people who he needs to see is the ed psyc and ocupational therapist and these are best accessed through the school (we are waiting to access them when ds starts). They will look at behaviour, social skills, development physical/emotional/educational development. If you are very concerned i would ask/make appointment with school nurse.

I would also advise you to make an incident log.

  1. event
  2. Ds' reaction
  3. Consequences
  4. Ds' reaction to consequences
Or something similar which can be used as backup evidence to asist in isolating the issue. It might simply be that he is less emotionally developed then his peers and thus cant cope with social aspect of school, and being unable to handle the emotions it gets vented the only way he knows - ie lashing out.

I am afraid to say that although most previous posters have suggested the GP the only advice mine gave was to contact social services and was uninterested and unhelpful. It has been the involvement of a school ds doesnt start for another 2 weeks that has gotten the situation any further. Make it clear to the school you would like to push for the involvement so that you can work with the school to resolve the issue with the knowledge that will permit the situation to be dealt with.

There is a very good book with aspects that can be implemented if any key points are noticable and will post the title but the title might put you off as it is specific for kids with particular issues. However i pick and mix the symptoms and tackle independantly rather then look at as a syndrom/condition it is a particular behaviour to be dealt with. Title here

mummery · 26/08/2009 12:52

Thanks everyone. Colditz - what you said has really opened my eyes, it never occured to me about the possible problem with empathy. I guess because empathy seems to be such a natural and ordinary human trait.

I'm going to research the ASD area more thoroughly prior to seeing the next round of specialists.

Re. hearing, yes he had his hearing tested several times and although was prone to infections as a baby it is fine.

And strange coincidence about the washing machine!

Thanks again

OP posts:
benbenandme · 26/08/2009 13:03

You could have been writing about my son, I do know exactly how you feel. My ds is 6, an only child, no father around, has had problems since day 1 at school, rarely gets party invites etc ... He was excluded for a day last year because he took a t.a's glasses off and blew a raspberry at her {shock}, he did get an invite to a party that the whole class (and mothers) attended, and promptly bit another child {blush}. I know exactly the feelings of despair, worry, nausea at hometime ...

The school did refer him for an assessment but it was taking ages so I asked the g.p. for a referral too and that got it moving much quicker. Theyd ecided there was no diagnosis but he does have autistic tendancies. I found the OT people really helpful and they said he has sensory dysfunction and gave me some info about that which helped explain a lot of his behaviour. Things aren't anywhere near perfect yet but I can see an improvement in his behaviour, but the feeling of panic when I collect him from school never goes away. At home he's lovely, calm, polite, yes he has the odd tantrum but hey don't all kids?

I hope things improve for you, try to ignore the gossip of other parents, as long as the school know you're being supportive and trying to improve the situation thats all that matters {wink} Sending you big hugs xx

asdx2 · 06/09/2009 12:10

Autism spectrum disorder just leaps out at me from everything you write and having two with autism I know a fair bit.
I have been the target in the playground, they organised a petition to get ds removed . Unfortunately the autism diagnosis didn't stop the gossip but did give the head the reason to invite the ringleaders to remove their children as ds was staying where he was
Ask your GP for a referral to a paediatrician taking with you details of his history, when he reached milestones etc and behaviours at home and school that concern you.
Both you and your son need support now, you are doing a great job especially if he is a happy boy at home get support now to make school a happy place too. Good luck

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread