I'm an introvert, DD is highly extrovert, am finding it really hard to be around her. Please help.....very long, started writing and couldn't stop...sorry

[oneplusone]

DD is a highly extrovert child. She relishes being the centre of attention, loves everybody watching and listening to her, is bossy but manages to do it in a nice way wrt her peers. She is very sociable, needs constant company, always wants to be with friends. She is 5, nearly 6.

I am an introvert. I exist in my head. I need regular longish periods of time on my own to think as i always have loads going on in my head.

I have concluded that DD and I are incompatible. DD wants my head space, but i need it for myself. The holidays magnify the problem, as of course she is around all day instead of being away for 6 hours a day during the week.

For reasons too long and complicated to go into now, i have no help or support during the holidays ie no grandparents to help out, nor any other family. I don't have that many friends i could call on to give me a break from DD, she has lots of friends at school but most have gone away and are busy with family etc right now.

I am at the end of my tether. I feel depressed, lethargic, disillusioned with motherhood, I am clearly not cut out for it, certainly not to be a mother to DD.

I also have 3 year old DS who is completely different. He is far far less demanding and i find it so much more enjoyable spending time with him. The less attention he demands, the more i want to give him my time and attention. With DD, however much attention i give her, it is never enough, she always wants more until i am drained and exhausted.

I feel i am on the verge of just walking out of the door with my bad and passport and not coming back. DH doesn't understand, although i have talked to him about how i feel. He thinks things will get better when DS starts school and i have time to do what i want/go back to work etc.

But i am not in the least bit optomistic about the future. I can't see how i can go back to work even when DS starts school. I used to have a professional job, i can't go back to that as there are no real part time positions, it's just not that sort of profession.

I just feel like i have sacrificed most of the rest of my life due to having children. Before i had them, or even when they were still very young, i naively thought i could go back to work once they were at school and life would kind of go back to how it was pre-DC's! Just writing that now makes me realise just how clueless i was about what impact having children would have on my whole life.

I feel quite bitter that i was not given the slightest inkling by anybody, none of the books etc etc, about how having DC's essentially means giving up my own life, not just temporarily but forever.

I know theoretically I could put DS into full time day care and go back to work full time, with DD in wrap-around care before and after school. I know a lot of mums do that. But i know i personally couldn't. I would be crippled with guilt and probably as bad as i do now but in a different way.

I am sure this is not a problem i alone face, i know so many of you feel similarly, if not perhaps as bad as i do right now. I have wracked and wracked my brains for some sort of solution that i would feel happy and comfortable with, where the DC's would not be the losers, but I cannot think of one. That is why i think i feel such despair, to the point where i have even thought of suicide as an option. I couldn't do it purely because of the DC's, and yet it is because of the DC's that i feel this way. I'm between a rock and a hard place. There is no way out that i can see.

Has anybody solved this awful dilema?

"For me it's not so much feeling a failure so much as feeling guilty - how can I have this precious adorable child and not love being with her every minute?"

Acinonyx, part of being a parent is teaching our dcs how to cope in different social scenarios and how to become more independant. It is GOOD to let them spend time with other people as they get older.

I have to admit to "farming" dd out to child care providers over her earliest years. We have a fantastic and close relationship, but she is so happy and confident and easily accepting of different situations.

most extrovert children would prefer to be at a noisy holiday club than at home with boring mummy

its not a cop out, ALL the children i know who go to these clubs have SAHM or p/t working mums or are spending time at grans etc. the short hours mean they are not suitable for working parents

i dont know ANY SAHMs who spent 13 weeks of school holidays at home all day with their little angels doing baking, crafts and bonding.

please send her. you are not a crap mother, you are NORMAL

i know, i have two extrovert children and one normal introvert. they drive me up the bloody wall

And i think that if being a SAHM makes you feel that you are in prison then you need to change it. not everyone is cut out to be a stay at home parent. we accept that about men and its the same for many women.if you hate it and are unhappy then it will affect your children

your kids will cope with childcare - they are 3 and 5, not tiny babies. any " disadvantages" from being in childcare will be made up by having a happy mother who enjoys spending time with them when she is not at work.

yes you will feel guilty, but we all do, whether we work full time, part time or from home. it comes with being a mum

please dont go on being this unhappy. you have so much good advice here

Hello all.

I have been thinking a lot about what's been said on this thread.

I think BonsoirAnna has made a very good point. It's not that I do not enjoy being around extrovert people, it's extrovert children that I find very draining. I have a good friend who is an extrovert, she loves attention, but she is witty, funny, interesting and I really enjoy her company. DD, being only 5, is not particularly witty or funny or interesting, to be perfectly honest, i find having to listen to her boring 99.9% of the time. DS does not demand attention like DD, but he somehow manages to be, without trying, cute, funny and very watchable. Which makes it worse as I had to sit and watch anyone, I would rather it was DS than DD.

A few days ago I would have been beating myself up over this, feeling guilty etc etc. But knowing that I am not alone in feeling like this, that actually what I am feeling is within the realms of normality and not in 'bad mother' territory has helped me enormously. I have realised that I am normal, DD is normal, we simply have a personality clash and would get on a lot better for having regular time apart. So I am going to bite the bullet and book her into her school holiday club for a few days next week and also the week after she comes back from staying at grandma's for a week .

Acinonyx, you are lucky that in rl you have found other mothers who feel the same way as you. All the mums i seem to know seem to love being full time SAHM's, seem to find it comes easy and naturally, even though i am sure they have bad days as well, but generally they do feel bored and unfulfilled like i do. I think any mums who do feel like me have already gone back to work, knowing that full time SAHM is not for them.

I actually only ended up as a full time SAHM because i actually couldn't go back to work after DD as i was so ill. And then we went abroad for nearly a year, came back when i was 6 months pregnant with DS, and then i was too busy to be bored as we moved to a new house in a new area. All this time i have also had my head space consumed with my family issues. Now all of a sudden, i seem to have reached a resolution with my family issues and don't spend every waking second thinking about it all, DS seems to have turned a corner since he was 3 and seems much more independent. So I suppose i suddenly, almost overnight, found myself with not a lot to do as DS didn't need me as much and with space free in my head as i wasn't consumed with my family issues. And i panicked.

DH and i have also talked. He is going to try and adjust his working hours so is home from work a lot earlier meaning i am alone a lot less with the DC's. He will be able to help with DD's homework and reading etc and I hope it will make me feel less overwhelmed because the childcare responibility will be shared a bit more.

Sorry, have to go now, back later.

sorry the SAHM mums I know do not feel bored and unfulfilled like I do.

I suppose essentially i have not been comparing 'like with like'. I am a very different person to the other SAHM's that I know. I should never have been a full time SAHM, I should have gone back to work, part time at least, but i was unable to due to health problems. So I am a fish out of water really. No wonder I have felt so inadeqate compared to people around me, because I am not, and have never been 'one of them'. I belong to a different category of mother, but i have ended up in the wrong group.

It all seems so obvious now, but i have never been able to really clarify in my mind what the problem was nor articulate it until now. I feel so relieved though now that i can see I am not a failure or not as good as the other mums I know, I am just very different to them.

oneplusone, I so feel for you, and I am so glad that you've seen that you are not alone in feeling the way you do.

I hope it might make you feel less guilty about the way your daughter's extrovert behaviour makes you feel, to know that it is quite, quite normal. A psychological study from the 60s and 70s came to the conclusion that there are nine different temperaments that combine to form a child's personality, and that when a child's combination of temperaments is very different from their parents' or siblings', this can lead to conflict and friction. The match or mismatch between a child and other members of the family is referred to as "goodness of fit", and it sounds very much as if you and your DD just don't have a very good goodness of fit.

It doesn't mean that your relationship is doomed, it just means that if you are kinder to yourself, and accept the way you are, and the way she makes you feel, and accept the way she is, you might be able to find a way to embrace her exuberant personality, and take joy in it.

I don't want to make assumptions about you, but from what you say, you seem to put so much pressure on yourself to be perfect, and compare well with all the other mothers around you, but you are not being fair on yourself. Everybody struggles (even those who look as if they have it sussed) and if you don't have help from your family, and you are coping on your own with two small children, then it's not surprising you're finding it tough. If your daughter wears you out, and you can't cope with her full on, all day, then it's only healthy for you, for her, your DS and your DH to get her out of your hair in an environment where she will be well looked after, and thoroughly stimulated. You will enjoy her far more if she's having a great time and you are getting a break. It doesn't make you an unfit mother, just human.

I hope that your situation does get better, but whatever you do, don't be so hard on yourself. You clearly love your children - you just need to love and look after yourself a little bit more. Let us know how you get on.

(BTW, if you want to know more about the psychological study I mentioned, here's a link www.greatschools.net/LD/family-home-life/temperament-affects-parents-children-family.gs?content=941& page=3 You can also find out more from the Positive Discipline books by Jane Nelsen.)

I feel sorry for you feeling this way but it doesn't have to be like this. Like you, I had a demanding full on career before having a child. I then got pregnant and split up with my partner.

I realised that I would have to work but not in my old profession. I didn't need to retrain but got a good (but half my old salary) job in a local authority working part time (so on a quarter of my old wages!)

I am a single mother, I went back to work when my son was 15 months old, 3 days a week and it is perfect. He is now 6, obviously I don't have the same job satisfaction or money but I can pick him up from school 2 days per week, have 2 days per week to myself when he is at school and he goes to afterschool club 3 days per week and I enjoy my job.

Your career doesn't need to be over because you are a mother, but you need to think about family friendly jobs. You will feel more fulfilled and your children won't suffer.

As to your daughter, as she is such an extrovert, she will benefit from the afterschool activities and doing things with her peers.

ttalloo, thank you so much for your lovely post. Your words have made me feel so much better. Starting this thread and feeling reassured that i am not alone and not a bad mother has also enabled me to open up a lot more to DH about exactly how i feel about DD.

I think DH has been a little shocked at what I have said, but I am lucky in that he is who he is and he will go away and think about what i have said and try to understand me.

susia, thank you too. You sound as if you have got the balance right and ultimately that is what this is all about, finding a balance where you're all happy. Right now things are skewed too far towards the DC's and everything has been about them and i have had nothing for me because i felt so guilty.

But i have been so much better the last 2 days when DD has been at her drama workshop that i enjoy her a lot more when she is back home.

I just want to say thank you to each and every person who has posted on this thread. You have all helped me to snap out of how i was feeling far better than my GP or anybody else could have and like some of you have said this is not the sort of thing that is easily discussed in rl. So it had been secretly and silently eating away at me until i think i reached crisis point last week and eventually started this thread.

I just wanted to add something - my DS is 3.4 and he has just done his first term at a school nursery - 3 full days a week. Prior to that, he'd been at home with me full time. It has done him the world of good, although I don't think he would have been ready at a younger age. I have him in holiday club at the moment because he adores it (I am SAHM, have DD aged 1.4 at home full time). Sorry if I am being thick, but couldn't your DS start school in Sept 2010 instead of Jan 2011? And also, he could attend a school nursery for an entire year prior to that, so from this Sept? I just thought that perhaps even though DS is your "easier" child, it would give you a total break if they were both at school.

Don't feel guilty about your DD in hol club - I used to go (my mum was SAHM) and I adored it. It was so much fun and I was itching to go. My DS adores it as well - I wasn't planning on sending him much, but he is so happy doing such a lot of varied stuff there (he is also quite demanding!)

oneplusone, I'm really happy that we've all helped to make you feel better about your situation; it's always so hard when you are in the middle of something and feeling desperate, to remember that you are not the only one to have gone through it. I hope that things do continue to improve, and that you are able to make all the changes you need to find the right balance for you and your family.

On that note, my HV told me that it was really important, when I was crying to her that I couldn't eat/shower/dress/go to the loo because my newborn DS1 would howl as soon as I set him down, that I should do all of those things for myself, and more, regardless of his howling because it was important to show him that I had respect for myself; if I didn't do that, then he'd have none for me either. That's one of the most important things I've learnt since becoming a mother, and it's helped me to retain my sense of self and continue to enjoy (not as frequently, unfortunately!) the things I used to, and still, love doing. So make that time for yourself - do things that make you happy, as well as your DCs and DH - and don't feel guilty. If you are happy, then everyone else in your family will be too!

oneplusone - do not feel guilty. This is a societal problem. Women are just not meant to be cooped up in four walls, for long days with small children and no stimulation. This does not happen in other cultures. You are being honest and believe me some mums are just better at pretending everything is okay.

It is also not uncommon for personality clashes between children and their parents.

I have just ordered two books from amazon about parenting as going through a tough patch with DS since DD came along. We have had some almighty tantrums. I can't help but feel it is not meant to be like this and that it is partly a western problem.

Motherhood is just not valued enough and thus we feel that we are 'just' mothers.

You really need to get some 'you' time. Doing something you really enjoy. Is this possible?

crokky thank you too. Tbh, i kind of understood the reason DD didn't want to go to her school's holiday club last time around. It was in a horrible, dark hut, the lady in charge was miserable and i think DD sensed the atmosphere as soon as she walked in and said she didn't want to go. And i didn't protest and try and make her stay as i wouldn't have wanted to stay there myself. I suppose i should look into different holiday clubs instead of her school one. It's too late for this year but i will definately do that for next year.

ttalloo, thank you again, and i wish somebody had said to me what your HV said to you. I notice that my DH is very different to me. He tends to do things he wants to do, and doesn't seem that bothered if the DC's are not involved whereas I seem to feel i have to interact with them as much as possible. I find it hard to do my own thing if they are in the same room for eg. I think subconsciously i feel guilty for doing something for myself instead of pandering to their every need. I think i must see myself only as their mother and therefore somehow think i am only allowed to do things for the DC's and not for myself. Hence the feeling guilty when i do sometimes try and do my own thing whilst we are all at home together.

Although the other problem is the DC's who only ever leave me alone for 2 mins before they come looking for me, particularly DD who of course cannot manage even a few minutes without attention.

Perhaps i need to start educating the DC's about the fact that I am not just their mummy, that I am also a person and i have rights and needs of my own. Even realising this for myself, just now whilst writing, is a big step, and definately in the right direction.

Rose, hi and thank you too. I totally agree with your view that western society is partly to blame for how I feel. In other societies, the women tend to group together and bring up their children together whilst cooking together etc. And it makes such a difference whenever i have friends over with their DC's. The DC's run off and play together and the mums gather in the kitchen, cooking and chatting and it is soooooo much better than being cooped up inside alone with the DC's.

But like you said, our society does not operate according to that model, we live much more isolated lives.

But it's very difficult to see how I could change things. It's mostly on weekends that we have friends over, weekdays it's usually just me and the DC's and even a day alone with the DC's is enough to make me go mad, as i have found out the hard way during the first few days of the hols.

If the books you have ordered offer any solutions i would be very interested.

The one thing keeping me going right now is that in a week's time, DH and both DC's are off to grandma's to stay for a week and i have the whole week to myself! I am counting down the days til they go and trying my best not to feel guilty about it.

This is all good for me to read so thank you having been so honest with your post for others who feel similarly to be able to read it, identify and share the good advice you've received. My son is just 2 yrs 5 months and school seems a looooong way off. The rain and being stuck in this week has for some reason just been too much for me and every day has seemed like a week in itself and i've found it such hard work.

The guilt is terrible isn't it? Knowing you just want to be left alone, wishing you could just creep upstairs to your bed to sleep. My son is wonderful and i really do adore him but i must admit that this 'stage' seems to be going on forever and i feel like i'm going insane! Someone please tell me that time speeds up and suddenly they're at school?

I'm so glad you are feeling better and have come to see you're not alone - you are so not! I also think you are very patient - i would find myself angry at hubby for not understanding and being proactive! But that's me. I'm a single parent so i don't have those issues - no one to blame lol.

I hope that now you've let yourself off the hook you can start achieving a better balance and things can move onwards and upwards for you and your family. You do deserve to be happier and there is nothing to hold you back from striking a better balance - it may not be perfect but it can be much better for you without hurting anyone.

Couldn't agree with rose more - there is a huge literature on this subject illustrating how profoundly unnatural the experience of many modern western mothers is.

oneplus: 'even a day alone with the DC's is enough to make me go mad' ah - now that is music to my ears because I am just the same!

There's also nothing I enjoy more than seeing dd playing with other dc. It's not like playing with me - it's proper kiddy play with more laughter - and more tears.

Yep i remember writing an essay on it at university and reading a classic book called, "wedlocked women". An oldie but a lot of it still applies, about the domestic isolation of western women. And then we apply guilt to ourselves because somehow we're not able to make ourselves into toddlers - i mean we're not two - am i seriously expecting myself to be able to want to play out a repetitive 'game' with cars on the floor for 8 hours a day and not to crave a bit of personal space when a small rather rough little boy is crawling all over me head butting me and sticking his feet in painful places laughing deliriously whilst i wince and beg him, admonish him etc to calm down be gentle etc whilst trying to suppress the normal instincts/reactions to someone really hurting you and overcrowding you.

I love my son, he is bright and for a 2 year old has a good sense of humour but he's 2 and in some ways i'm reminded often of what my wise paediatrician said to me at the hospital when he was born and taking a while to feed, "they're just like puppies you know". Sometimes it is like being a dog trainer, sometimes they're not fully human in the sense of socialised yet and it's damn hard work. No one would expect you to spend 24 hours a day with an adult with minimal social skills, empathy, consideration, who had little bladder and bowel control, who demanded your constant attention, could be difficult about eating, constantly made a mess etc and come out smiling and saying what a joy it was every day! Because it's a child we're not meant to find it hard work, draining, swamping etc?

I can say all this logically, and take joy in others saying but like you oneplusone i too feel the guilt and i'm a bad mum and all of that. I feel terrible for spending some days, days in a row, living for naptimes and bedtimes. But we ARE doing a good job by still getting on with it and taking care of them. Letting this stuff out won't undo that, hopefully it will let out the steam and pressure of tucking it all down and beating ourselves up about it.

Sorry for long post - i'm sure it doesn't help and i'm probably just selfishly venting for my own sake. I'm a single mum. My son's father doesn't see him at all and i was determined he should have me full time because he shouldn't have no parents at all due to me going to work full time. Now i constantly daydream, jobsearch and calculate ways to a better balance, ie part time work, but it's not easy financially or in the reality of what's available part time with a good enough wage. I also have an unsaleable property that we don't live in anymore as it was too small that adds to the whole trapped, no way out, aaarghhh thing. What i'm trying to keep telling myself is that this is a 'stage' of motherhood and time will change things, e.g. when he goes to school and i will have all that space.

My big fear is winter.

Sorry one other thing - i bet you were fantastic (not that you're not great now) when they were 0-2. That's when everyone agrees the majority of emotional stability, sense of being loved/loveable etc really gets laid down. Struggling a bit, being a bit remote or just not perfect at this stage for a bit is NOT going to damage or have damaged your kids. Possibly DD is so happy babbling away and dancing about she doesn't even notice and doesn't really need 'perfect' attention.

Also think someone gave you a great tip in this post about the setting a timer and saying mummy needs this time to herself and training DD to use that time quietly to herself - could gradually build up the time. We're allowed to train and teach them the things we need them to be able to do to make our family work.

Oneplusone - come round for a cup of tea - our extrovert daughters could have a ball . I can relate to a lot of what you say - my dd is 4 going on 5 and is amazingly confident and upbeat - she even goes into shops and introduces us both! Her non stop talking at times really does my head in and I have introduced quiet time - after a trip to the park or whatever - we have some time when we do things by ourselves...sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but it is worth the try. I have a very clingy ds (20 months) - so I feel like I am pulled in different directions all the time.

I work part time and it does help - don't feel guilty you need something outside to stimulate you and to make you feel like you.

hello all again and hi and welcome to ellagrace and janx. Ellagrace, don't apologise for your post, it's always so good to read about other people's experiences and to know I'm not alone.

And it is very unnatural to expect a grown, intelligent woman to spend her days with very young children who seem to know how to push you to your utter limits, and somehow come out smiling at the end of the day. That is what my DH seems to expect. He always says that if he's had a bad day he doesn't come home and moan about it to me so I shouldn't moan to him about my bad days with the DC's. But i know that his idea of a bad day is nothing like a bad day at home with the DC's, he's had at the very least, a nice undisturbed lunch hour, a few undistured tea/coffee breaks, time to read the paper in peace during his commute etc etc. I keep telling him he takes his lunch hour for granted and if it was suddenly taken away like mine has, he would realise how important it is.

I honestly think DH is part of my problem. He thinks I just moan all the time and don't appreciate what i have. I think I would appreciate what i have a lot more if i didn't spend 24 hours a day living amongst it. Distance makes the heart grow fonder and all that. He simply doesn't understand and whilst it helps enormously knowing other mums feel the way i do, i think i need DH to understand me as well and to realise i need to moan and let off steam at the end of the day because i mostly hold it all in as i don't want to take it out on the DC's as it's not their fault. (Well, actually it is but they're not doing it on purpose!)

Recently there was a front page news story about a working mother of 3 DC's, who committed suicide. I think I know how she felt. On day 2 or 3 of the summer hols, i was ready to do the same thing. I was at crisis point and if the means had been put in front of me to end it all, i think i would have done it. And that scares me as i have never been that low before. I feel a lot better now, but i am scared of feeling that bad again. I need to take steps to make sure i don't reach such a point again. Regular breaks from the DC's, particularly DD, and doing something for myself seem to be key to improving my mental state.

I feel guilty though that it's only DD that makes me feel this way. DS never does. I enjoy being around him. He is so undemanding, cute and funny, he is a joy to be around. DD is fine in very small doses, 30 mins a day would be sufficient, any more than that and i feel like screaming. I feel tense whenever she is around. Surely this is not normal? If it's just me and DS at home i am completely relaxed. As soon as DD comes home from school, i tense up and literally have to consciously keep it together to stop myself from exploding because of her whining, demands, refusal to take no for an answer. And it's always been this way, i can't even say it's due to her age. I have never been able to relax around her, ever since she was born. Perhaps i need to speak to a professional about how she makes me feel as it doesn't seem right.

I am so grateful that i can be honest about how i feel on here, feeling i have to keep it all inside is part of the problem i think.

ttalloo, i haven't read your article yet about "goodness of fit" but i definately think you are on the right lines. DD and I are incompatible personalities. She seems to be so much like my MIL, who i cannot stand , i wonder if subsconsciously this has something to do with the problems in my relationship with DD. Perhaps i should stop analysing it and just accept that for now DD and I need lots of space from each other and try and find ways to make our relationship work. The trouble is though, it only seems to be 'one way'. ie I need lots of space from her, but she wants to spend all her waking hours with me. She is far more attached to me than to DH. And I am far more attached to DS than I am to DD. But DS is more attached to DH than he is to me. It is a bit like an unreciprocated love triangle (not in the adult sense of course) and i think that is partly what is causing the problem. I am attached to DS, DS is attached to DH, DD is attached to me, but I am not attached to her. (Although i do of course love both DD and DS), i feel a much stronger bond with DS than i have ever felt with DD.

Sorry, i am rambling and thinking out loud now, time to go and think inside my head.

Hi oneplusone, it's nice to hear from you again.

I was really saddened to hear that you have been feeling suicidal over this; please, if you ever feel like that again, post on here and (speaking for many others, I'm sure) we'll help you. There is so much pressure on mothers (whether SAHM or working) to be perfect, make everyone around them happy, and to have nothing but fluffy, earth-motherly thoughts about their children, even when they are being nightmares, that the slightest problem can escalate into feelings of utter worthlessness and uselessness. The very fact that you've been posting on here to find a solution to your situation, shows that you are a good mother (and IMO that's a far better mother than a perfect one) and a good person, who just wants to do the right thing by her family.

I absolutely agree with you that it's not natural to expect a grown woman to spend all day (and night) with small children without going even slightly insane. My second worst nightmare (absolute worst is a child that won't sleep) is a day spent in the company of just my children, without a playdate or activity planned to lighten the load; I adore my children, and I don't have the complications that you do of poor goodness of fit, but a day filled with repetition, screaming, mess, nappies, entertaining two under three, endless negotiations worthy of the UN, and no adult company, is enough to have me almost crying with relief when my DH walks through the door after work.

I'm with everyone else who has said that this is a societal problem - my grandmothers lived in small rural villages, where their parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts and cousins all lived within a 10-minute walk of each other, and everybody pitched in to help. Probably they had the reverse problem of no privacy or space, but at least there was always someone around to talk to, or to ask for help. I'm lucky because my mother and in-laws live very close to me, as do three very good friends, so I'm not often home alone with two small tyrants but oh! when I am, it's hell.

I think it's hard for a DH to understand just what being at home all day with small people involves. (Mine has a fairly good clue, but it's taken him till my second maternity leave to grasp that I am not actually having a holiday while off work.) Is there any way you could get your DH to look after both DCs for a whole day while you get some time to yourself (shopping, meet a friend, get some pampering)? Maybe if he has them to himself he might see things from your point of view?

As for your DD, counselling/psychotherapy might help with your relationship if it has been difficult since birth (and frankly a resemblance to an unliked MIL would be off-putting to me), but do you think it possible that she is as clingy and demanding of you as she is because she senses that you find her hard work and would rather not be around her, and is trying to get your attention accordingly? I know that this might sound like the worst suggestion you've had on this thread, but have you tried spending some quality time with her without DH or DS around? Maybe if she knows that at least once a week (or even a day) she'll get to do something she really enjoys alone with you, she'll be more reassured and find the confidence to let go a bit. (And lots and lots of cuddles; I read somewhere that children who receive lots of physical displays of affection are more relaxed than those that do not.)

And someone (apologies, I can't remember who!) mentioned using an egg-timer to get yourself some space, which I think is an eggcellent (couldn't resist, sorry!) idea. Perhaps you can make it into a game for her, so that she gets a reward if she gives you 15 or 30 minutes' peace.

Don't be hard on yourself, oneplusone. You've just been going through a very bad patch, but it won't last forever, and when you are out of it, your relationship with DD will be much better, and you will be more confident and relaxed. And whatever happens, remember, you're not alone in this.

Apologies for long post - got carried away. Must go and feed DH, who's watching Top Gear and therefore can't do it himself.

Just read your second post and feel really sad for you. I know exactly what you mean about wanting to be looked after for a change- my parents are abroad so it's rare I get that lifeline. It must be very hard not to have it at all.
About the guilt...it's a part of your depression. If you tackle the depression, these feelings of being overwhelmed and anxious and a bad person and a bad mother will dissipate. I went back to work when my son was 6 months old. I felt guilty putting him in nursery and missed him when I was at work but I was slowly going mad being at home. And I'm no good to him or like that.
Everyone is different but the following things have helped me to a greater or lesser degree in my 17 years on-and-off depression: anti-depressants (took for 5 years, stopped 3 years ago); yoga; exercise; hypnotherapy; CBT; herbal stuff/ bach flower remedies. I consider myself 'cured' but what that really means is that I have different ways of coping now and don't need the ADs to feel okay anymore.
Lots of people have suggested sending your DD to a holiday club so you can have some well earned respite. Please do give yourself a break, you deserve peace & quiet and some thinking space.
Everything is worth trying- please talk to your doctor and soon. The fact that you've mentioned suicide is very worrying. And there's no need for you to live in this misery, there is so much help available nowadays. Depression is a horrible illness but it is treatable.
Really hope you start to feel better soon

got carried away and didn't look at the 2nd page as per usual....sounds like you've moved on in your thinking anyway, it's great that you realise that you deserve a break.
Great advice above on DD, she may just need that one on one time to help her let go a bit

I'd second what ttalloo says here

"As for your DD, counselling/psychotherapy might help with your relationship if it has been difficult since birth (and frankly a resemblance to an unliked MIL would be off-putting to me), but do you think it possible that she is as clingy and demanding of you as she is because she senses that you find her hard work and would rather not be around her, and is trying to get your attention accordingly? I know that this might sound like the worst suggestion you've had on this thread, but have you tried spending some quality time with her without DH or DS around? Maybe if she knows that at least once a week (or even a day) she'll get to do something she really enjoys alone with you, she'll be more reassured and find the confidence to let go a bit. (And lots and lots of cuddles; I read somewhere that children who receive lots of physical displays of affection are more relaxed than those that do not.)"

I can identifiy as I have a very extrovert sociable dd and am quite introverted myself. She wants me to play with her all the time, is very poor at entertaining herself and will act up like mad to get attention. She was an incredibly clingy baby and I have always struggled with this aspect of her personality . I love her to bits and sometimes feel like the world's crappest mum because I think maybe I push her away too much. It's not her fault that we are different in this way. Then like you I have an easy going younger ds who is quite happy playing on his own.

What has helped is making a big deal of doing some "special play time" together and I have bribed the lovely teenage girl next door to come and play with her. I'm considering an au pair at some stage.

I think she would have been happier not being the eldest TBH, she needs a constant play-mate and a younger brother doesn't cut it.

hello hairmelon and liath and thank you both for your posts. I do seem to have gone past the initial crisis i wss going through and feel much better now.

I think i definately should try and incorporate some regular exercise into my normal routine. But will have to wait until september.

I know you are all right about making an effort to do the thing i actually dread the most, spending one to one time with DD. It is so hard to do this at home as I find all the things she likes to do mind numbingly boring. If I take her out for the day then it's much more fun for us both. She is a different child, and the distraction of things to look at seem to curb the incessant chatter a bit.

liath, i think you are spot on. If DD had been the second born, i think she would have been happier (and so would i) as like you have said, she would then have had a constant playmate and somebody to talk to.

Have to go, DC's are fighting.

It sounds like your own childhood was difficult and I wonder if mothering your own daughter stirs this up and makes it extra difficult. It sounds to me like you could really do with some therapy. RE the guilt about working holiday clubs etc- your daughter being around a mother who is feeling suicidal triggered by being around her is really not good for her (anymore than it is for you). Far better to get a break and feel better in yourself for both of your sakes.Although it sounds to me like even with breaks etc you could do with some extra help. Could you afford private therapy?