Those who had DC2 and kept DC1 in childcare, come and advise!

[angel1976]

Hi all,

I'm expecting DC2 in early November. DS1 will be 20/21 months then. He is now in nursery 4 days a week (Wednesdays off as I work PT and that's my day off). DS1 is extremely active and on the move all day long. He actually goes off and fetches his shoes if we are not out of the house by 9.30/10am. He is in a lovely nursery that he loves and that we love too.

A bit of background: I didn't have a great time when DS1 was born. I live thousands of miles from my family. DH's family lives an hour away but has their own lives and very set in their ways - we were really stressed us out in the beginning with their idea of parenting but they do adore DS1 now that most of what we don't agree on is kinda in the past. I breastfed DS1 for only 6 weeks (have an underlying medical problem which could explain the failure) so was very down about that and would like to try BFing again. I was in tears most days and did not come out of the 'haze' till DS1 was at least 6/7 months old. DS1 is a handful but both DH and I do find him a lot easier now than when he was little. DH and I also recently got our relationship back on track but making some conscious decisions to make sure we are spending couple time together - i.e. getting a weekly cleaner, getting a regular babysitter once every 4 weeks etc.

While DC2 is planned (a bit earlier than expected!), as the due date gets closer, I am starting to get cold feet about how I am going to cope with two. The original plan is to keep DS1 in nursery but drop his days to two days a week starting November (DC2 due early November but DS1 came a week early so we could be looking at late October). I am starting to think that maybe I should keep DS1 in nursery for 3 days for at least the month of November and see how things go before thinking about dropping to the planned 2 days a week.

Am I being mean? I feel mean that we are keeping DS1 in nursery when I could have him at home. But I can also imagine that DS1 will not be happy about being cooped up at home all day with a screaming baby that is going to take up all my attention! I would plan to take them both out of course but understand that with a new baby, it might not be the easiest of tasks (there were many days in the early days of DS1 where I spent most days in a bathrobe!). On the other hand, I can see that if he is at home more, he will hopefully build up more of a bond with DC2 earlier? Or is that being a bit idealistic seeing as most babies won't be doing much?

Also, DS1 does love going to nursery and I would feel mean taking him out of somewhere he is safe and happy into a rather unsettled new 'situation' with a new baby. I can't quite decide what is worse - him staying at home more and possibly resenting the new baby or him being away and possibly resenting not being home with mummy and new brother? ARGGGGHHHHHHHH! Am I worrying too much? Should I just adopt a wait-and-see attitude before deciding? Can anyone of you come and talk to me about your experiences? Thanks!

Ax

ds1 was 16m and could not sit still for 2 seconds when ds2 was born by cesarean. No family nearby etc, dp self employed so couldn't take a lot of time off.

I was planning to go back to work again after ds2 so to keep the place at nursery and have priority for the same days for ds2, I had to keep ds1 in there for his 3 days a week.

Before ds2 arrived I thought it would be a waste of money as I'd want ds1 at home all the time.

As soon as I was at home with ds2 I realised it was the best thing for ds1 to go to nursery, he had all his little friends, his routine and I had time with the new baby which was great as it took me a long time to recover from the section, plus he fed constantly so ds1 might have felt neglected at home.

I went back to work when ds2 was 7 m and he settled at nursery instantly on the first day - because he had been used to calling in there twice a day to drop off and collect his brother, and all the staff and other children were already familiar to him.

I also kept ds1 in nursery (he was 3 years when ds2 was born). He was only in for the mornings, but it gave a bit of quiet time every day to spend with ds2. It was certainly needed as ds1 is very high energy, I'd had a c-section and as others also experienced, ds1's behaviour did seem to go downhill the minute ds2 was born. Personally though I'd do it that way again (except that ds2 is most definately the last) as I think the older dc's need a bit of normality when their whole world changes due to a new sibling. So, don't feel guilty about it. He'll probably prefer to be hanging around nursery with his friends than at home anyway.

I was a sahm so cant really advise on the nursery thing but your Mils plan is really bad!

I'd be firmly telling MIL what your plans are - and that they're what is happening
I feel for you - I've got a mil of the same sort "we're going to do ...bla bla..." but fortunately she shuts up when I say "no actually this is what's happening" or "bla is what I've planned"
Don't take any shit. It's your family, do it the way you want it. Accept offers of "help" later, when it suits you. I chose to have my ds[es] as the first visitors for new baby/ies [iyswim] and I insisted on it so that they felt special, the baby's first visitor. Fortunately the plan worked

angel - our DS loves his sleep too! Are you sure they are not the same child?! He is insane when awake but can easily sleep up to 14 hours a night and still has 2 hour naps at just gone 3 (touch wood). When he is awake he is awake though!

When DD came along his sleeping pattern was not affected at all.

DD is the opposite of him - really easy when she is awake but does not like to sleep

I think second babies - from my friends babies anyway - are often calmer - touch wood for you!

Angel - yes, my DS1 sounds exactly the same as yours too - he was a fantastic sleeper prior to DS2 arriving but it all went a bit pear-shaped and he was getting up upto 5 times a night and refusing to go back to bed ( I think partly because DS2 was in our room which is understandable I guess). Ds1 also decided to drop his nap (even though I don't think he was ready to do so) the day me and DS2 came home from hospital - I think all of this created a vicious circle where he was so tired, therefore his behavour deteriorated and so on.

I think Flibberty (hi ) makes a good point about the fact that your DS2 may settle easier at nursery because it is familiar surroundings - DS2 had his first full day at nursery yesterday and settled in without a hitch - his keyworker described him as a complete dream!! I do think the fact that he has been into the nursery twice a day for the last 8 months has made it so much easier.

Peppa's description of her DS1 as a hyperactive dog just about sums up my DS1 aswell (although I think me and Peppa have already established on a toddler nappy addiction thread that we have the same DS1's )

One final point - you mentioned childcare vouchers which I assume you get through work. You do know you are still entitled to receive these whilst you are on maternity leave and it is illegal to make any deductions from SMP which means that, depending on your company's particular mat pay scheme, they have to provide you with your vouchers and you will get them for free. This will definitely help with paying for your childcare

oooh highjack - ceebee how is the nappy addiction going? Nursery are toilet training DS this week - 'Auntie Paula' is on the case lol. Thing is he is doing really well there - one accident yesterday but at home refuses and just wees all over the house

What were we saying about dog comparisons again lol

I kept DS (2.4 at the time) 5 days a week when I had DD.

Reasons were:

I wanted DD to have some alone time with me the same as DS had when he was born.
DS loves it and I think it's important not to disrupt children's lives too much when a sibling comes along.
I needed time to recover and could do this when DD slept. Could not have done it with DS at home.
Our nursery is very over-subscribed and dropping days would mean I wasn't guaranteed to get them back when I went back to work.

All in all it worked out really well for us. I would sometimes take DS in late and collect him early. I also sometimes kept him off and we did things together. As others have daid when DD started she also knew everyone and they knew her and she settled in brilliantly.

Peppa toilet training isnot going here We had an abortive attempt this weekend but whilst DS1 seems to be ok with weeing on the potty - poos are a whole different ballgame! On Sat morning, he announced he wanted to wear his underpants so me and DH thought great....did really well for about an hour and then declared he needed a poo - so DH took him to the toilet to find he had already pooed in his pants. Change of underpants and half an hour he did exactly the same again....and then refused to wear his underpants and wanted a nappy back on. A couple of hours later, he asked me if he had a nappy on (which I thought was a strange question) but then realised that he was having another poo and wanted to check that 'it was ok'...so back to square one. I think we are going to have to go cold turkey on the nappies (not easy when they are in the house because of DS2)

DD1 was 22 mths when DD2 was born (so the exact same age gap). She is also high energy and enjoyed her 3 days a week at the CM. She went down to two days a week for about 6 months, and then back up to three days every other week after that.

I think if we had taken her away from the CM she would have been dreadful cooped up at home with me and the baby. Also, I REALLY enjoyed having some time alone with DD2 - if the toddler is at home all the time you will never get to do anything with the baby except feed it/stop it crying/change its nappy.

So my advice - keep DS at the nursery for at least 2 days a week and don't feel guilty.

Ceebee - would you like me to send 'auntie paula' your way - see another benefit of keeping older child at nursery lol. I tried several ideas - DD needing his nappies and buying a present for him to swap (didnt work), the nappy fairy coming for big boys (didnt work), him being 3 and 3 year olds werent allowed to wear nappies (didnt work), bribing him in tesco 'if I dont buy nappies I can buy you this toy' (didnt work) lol.

Seriously though - I agree with the idea of having time with the baby - just like you would have with the older one. Its time to snuggle, cuddle, play peekabo without the older one demanding attention. I feel terrible for DD sometimes as we get to the end of the day and realise we have barely noticed her all day long (dont worry - I think we took her out with us ). DS is loud and active so naturall gets the attention. It is so peaceful just to be able to enjoy the baby.

I have now gone back to work but still on a wednesday I keep DD home and send DS to nursery so I can go on mumsnet in peace have special one to one time with her. It is also nice to be able to meet up with mums who maybe only have one baby and do things like have coffee without the older child going insane and the poor innocent new mum not having to deal with the reality of a toddler

Thank you all, it does seem that the general consensus will be to keep DS1 in nursery as much as possible. I think in my mind, it would be unreasonable to keep him there for 4 days so I think we will drop to 3 days and take it from there. His nursery is very popular but when you are in, they seem pretty flexi about changing days etc as some of the kids are part-time so they do have slots here and there.

Peppapig - LOL at the same baby and dog comparison! Somehow did say that once about how boys are like dogs, they need fresh air and exercise everyday and that is so, so true. I'm not sure if it's limited to boys but there are certainly a type of baby that does seem to have no off switch AT ALL when awake but drops like a fly when it is time for bed! DS woke up at 6.30am this morning, we went to toddler group from 9.30.11.30, then we went to a cafe in the local woods for lunch, where he continued to havea bit of a run around and he has just completely conked out in his cot. I will be lucky if he wakes up before 4 so we can do something together before dinner!

Ceebee74 - Thanks for the tip about the childcare vouchers. I need to find out more. I only went back to work in Feb and signed up for the childcare vouchers in March and found out I was preggers soon after but the minimum commitment for the vouchers was a year so I need to find out what happens as I go off on maternity in March.

Thanks to the rest of you for sharing your experiences, it's been really helpful in helping me make up my mind about doing the 'right' thing. As for the MIL issue, don't worry, she's not going to get her way. She's been told by DH that we will parent our way so she won't be taking my baby away from me the moment the second one is born! Doesn't stop her in her self-delusional ways sometimes though... I have a really close friend nearby that DS loves so hopefully she will be able to help babysit when we are in hospital! Thank you all once again!

Child care vouchers - they will continue if your maternity pay is above the threshhold. Mine carried on for the first 6 months - then when I was on SMP alone they stopped.

I wouldnt do too much
they feel fobbed off and then are more hassle than its worth.
be VERY careful it can lead to jealousy

I mean, go off on maternity in October. Pregnancy brain!

Peppa was your DD born/due before 1 October 2008?? If the baby is due/born after 1 October 2008 (like my DS2 was) then you are entitled to receive your vouchers for the full 12 months now - and if you are on SMP only or no pay at all, then you still receive the vouchers but no deductions can be made from your pay so you technically get them for free.

My DS was born in February 2008. Does that mean I don't get them for the full 12 months? I really, really hope I have an easy second baby...

Angel no it is when this baby is due so you will definitely qualify here is a link for you to have a look at which will probably explain it better than me. It is something I feel quite strongly about as I suspect a lot of employers hope their employees will not know about it and therefore not demand the vouchers!! (And sorry, it is 5th October 2008 - not the 1st)!

Angel - I had some really good advice in the early days with 2, that might help with your MIL problem and with the nursery thing (though sounds like you're decided there).

I was told that the new baby, daddy being at home on paternity leave and the visitors/presents/fuss is lovely for the older dc but can also be quite unsettling for them. DD1 was a bit upset one day and the hv was visiting and said this to me - she said it can sometimes be a good idea just to get back to normal as soon as you can (normal routine, no house guests, not too many visitors and stuff). She was actually right in the case of DD1, as soon as daddy went back to work and the houseguests (my in-laws who are lovely and were very welcome) had gone, she was going back to nursery and was back to her normal self.

Obviously only works if you are feeling well enough in yourself after the birth to cope without too much additional help on tap...

Thanks for the advice NorkilyChallenged! I was physically very well after birth, it was my emotions that were a complete mess. I just wasn't prepared for what a change a baby makes to your life. Of course that would be different this time round but it is the fact that we will have a very active toddler as well that is scary. It does sound like a good idea to keep him in nursery and at home with us as much as possible. Thank you!

DS2 is six weeks old and I have kept DS1 (3.11 years) in nursery for three days (down from five). It has been a godsend. DS1 is happy to have his own space and seems much chirpier when I pick him up from nursery than at the end of a day at home. DS1 is quite high maintenance and is giving us, though not DS2, quite a bit of grief and it's just good to have a break from being told to go to time out and that he's not my friend any more. He's never questioned why he should continue going to nursery. In fact, I've now extended his time in nursery for another three weeks right up until he starts school in September . I had a rough first few months with DS1 and am finding it quite tough with DS2 as well, tbh, though not as tough as with DS1. I just find babies really hard work, I'm afraid, and just need to keep them alive and relatively happy and me sane until they get more interesting!