Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Reflux / Feeding / Advice Desperately Needed!!

26 replies

EmmaLouise1982 · 22/06/2009 11:42

Hi all,
I'm new here and am in desperate need of advice... A bit of background first...
My little boy arrived 3 weeks ago by c section (almost 2 weeks late) and unfortunately due to staff/bed shortages I got stuck on the labour ward all day after his birth and didn't get any help with breastfeeding until he was 24 hours old at which point he showed no interest. I was told to leave it and he would eat when he was hungry, but by 36 hours he was screaming with hunger at which point I gave him a bottle. He was very forcefully sick with each bottle, which I was told was due to him being 'muscosy' but I continued to offer the breast before each feed and on the 3rd day he took it and I have breastfed exclusively up until a few days ago since then. Once we got home, the sickness settled down to what I would consider normal baby sick and apart from wanting to feed LOTS (which i understand is normal (he was fine) until about 10 days ago when the sickness suddenly returned. It started sporadically at first with no real pattern (happened both at breast and at bottle of expressed milk) but when it did happen it would come out of his nose etc., be very forceful (though not projectile) and upset him for ages afterwards! I mentioned this to GP and HV but as he is gaining weight nicely (birth 8lb 10oz, now 10lb 2oz) they said not to worry. He is also very whingey/grizzly and seems unhappy and uncomfortable most of the time and sometimes screams inconsolably for no apparent reason for hours on end. On Friday afternoon through to Saturday morning he literally brought back up every feed straight away and was very unhappy so i took him to the doctors who diagnosed him with reflux. We were prescribed infant gaviscon which I have been administering on a spoon prior to breastfeeding which is helping a bit, but not much. Anyway, in amongst all this I decided (by instinct) to experiment with some formula. I have been giving one bottle a day (4 oz) for the last few days of cow and gate comfort (mixed with gaviscon) and it stays down without any ill effects (except his poo seems much less frequent) so yesterday I tried 2 formula feeds and again, they both stayed down where as all his breastfeeds came up (in part at least). So here's my dilemma... every single piece of advice I can find online/in books/from health professionals/breastfeeding support groups (have tried them all) say that breast feeding is best for reflux and bottle feeding aggravates it, which is why I'm very hesitant to just switch to formula. However, why isn't the formula making him sick when my breast milk seems to be?! My partner can't understand this 'dilemma' and just thinks we should switch to formula for all his feeds but I know if I do that and then the formula does make his reflux worse, there's no going back to breastmilk! I don't know whether to a) continue to mix feed and hope he gets better with time b) bite the bullet and switch to formula and hope it continues to agree with him or c)give him purely formula for a couple of days whilst expressing regularly to keep my milk supply up just incase. My instinct is telling me it's my breastmilk making him sick but my GP and HV say that could no way be the case?! I picked him up this morning to find he had vomited in his sleep (worrying) and was soaking wet (worrying!) I breastfed him at 8 which seemed to stay down OK, and then again at 10 which immediately came right back up all over me, him and the sofa... Also there's the incredible guilt to deal with each time I formula feed I feel like I'm giving him second best, maybe that's my hormones though?! Any advice would be much appreciated< i'm at the end of my tether and just seem to cry all day!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Beachcomber · 22/06/2009 11:55

Gosh you poor thing. Congrats on your baby!

Both of my DDs were very sick with breast milk and I found that cutting all dairy foods out of my diet stopped the vomiting. They still spat up a fair bit but nothing exceptional.

In your position I would definitely try removing dairy to see if that helps as an initial plan. If you do choose to do this you need to be really strict and cut out all dairy (milk, cheese, yoghurts, cream etc) and you also need to check the labels on all bought foods for casein, milk powder, etc.

If it is the dairy that is upsetting your baby you should start to see some improvement after a few days but you need to keep this up for three weeks to get the full result. If after the 3 weeks there is no change then this is not the problem.

Try not to replace dairy with soya products as around half of all babies who have a problem with dairy are the same with soya. I used rice and oat milks for things like cereal and some cooking.

Good luck and I hope things work out well for you.

BlackberryFool · 22/06/2009 11:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

BlackberryFool · 22/06/2009 11:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Beachcomber · 22/06/2009 12:04

BTW I saw loads of doctors with my first DD and none of them mentioned the possibility of cow's milk protein passing into my milk and making my baby sick.

some info for you

Beachcomber · 22/06/2009 12:07

I agree with Blackberry that you will get more specific help in the feeding section. Maybe you could ask MNHQ to move your thread? (I don't know if they can do this BTW but you could try).

timmette · 22/06/2009 12:19

My son was the same not only did I stop breastfeeding but I gave him formula for babies with reflux stopped the gavison and he thrived - and stopped crying all the time.

GreenMonkies · 22/06/2009 12:21

The formula is staying down because it is heavier. "the whey protein been broken down to make them easier to digest........ Thicker formula for comfortable digestion"

If you carry on mix feeding your milk will fade away anyway, so you need to make a decision now, to bf or to ff. 50% of babies with reflux are reacting to cows milk, which is why formula makes it worse because formula is basically modified cows milk. The comfort formula is probably staying down because it's thicker and also because the protiens have been processed to make them less indigestable, but this doesn't mean it is better than your milk!

It is possible he is reacting to something you are eating, it is generally cows milk (the protiens do pass directly into your milk), but it may be something else, like wheat/gluten, tomatoes, and so on. To find out you'd need to cut dairy out of your diet for two weeks, you wouldn't see an improvement instantly, generally it takes 7-10 days to see any changes.

I do understand how challenging and depressing this seems, my DD2 suffered with very bad Cows Milk Protien intolerance, I was dairy free for 18 months before she didn't react through my milk. But the change in her was so dramatic that it was worth giving up cheese (I found milk-free replacements for pretty much everything else!) to have my screaming thrashing miserable baby turn into a happy, contented smooth skinned cherub.

Find a Baby Cafe or other bf support group and go to it, or ring a helpline, you'll find plenty of helpful advice and general support there, you'll feel much less hopeless if you talk to other mums who have "been there".

EmmaLouise1982 · 22/06/2009 12:29

The baby has also developed a rash all over his face and head in the last week or so. The helath visitor says it's heat rash, my GP says it's infant acne and the emergency GP I saw on Saturday (re. the reflux) says it's ezczema (how's that for conflicting info?!) the spots are red bumps, some with yellow heads. I asked if this could signify some kind of allergic reaction and was told that it would be all over his body, not just the head. could this be a sign of cows milk protein intolerance? x

OP posts:
FiveGoMadInDorset · 22/06/2009 12:41

DS had milk intolerance and had eczma on the back of his head, as soon as he was taken of any cows milk products it went.

Beachcomber · 22/06/2009 12:55

Yes,yes,yes. Any sort of rash, eczema, skin eruption in a baby that gets sick or has reflux is practically confirmation that this is some sort of food sensitivity, probably dairy.

Both my DDs had eczema as breast fed babies and they still get it now if they eat dairy.

EmmaLouise1982 · 22/06/2009 13:24

The baby also sneezes quite a bit and has a stuffy nose, is that naother sign?
Can you tell me how this dairy intolerance is diagnosed?
Thanks

OP posts:
EmmaLouise1982 · 22/06/2009 13:32

Also, wouldn't he be struggling to gain weight if it were milk allergy? That seems to be one of the main symptoms. . .

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 22/06/2009 13:41

Yes stuffy nose is definitely another sign, both of mine had this.

Not sure about sneezing but seems plausible.

Both my DDs were dairy intolerent. DD1 struggled to gain weight and indeed was diagnosed failure to thrive. However that was only because it took us ages to figure out what was wrong with her, mostly because we got such crap advice from health care professionals. Her weight was fine for about the first 6 weeks.

DD2's weight was OK but then as soon as she started being sick we stopped dairy, she was about 4 weeks old IIRC.

Honestly your baby is showing most of the classic signs; vomiting, stuffiness and skin eruptions.

DD1 started out like this and then went on to; screaming, not eating, wheezing, terrible eczema, failure to gain weight.

This really sounds like dairy allergy to me and if it is not that it is an allergy to another foodstuff. Dairy is the most likely though unless you eat a lot of soya products.

Beachcomber · 22/06/2009 13:43

Keep forgetting to say welcome to mumsnet EmmaLouise .

Got to go out now but will look back in on this thread later.

If I were you I would start one in feeding asking people about experiences with dairy allergy in breast fed babies. You will get loads of responses.

GreenMonkies · 22/06/2009 14:52

weight gain was never an issue for DD2, she was a right porker, even though she did very runny vile green slimey poos that exploded out of her at warp 9 she was really roly poly. She snacked almost non-stop, preferring to "eat" little and often rather than big feeds, another classic sign of reflux/intolerance, a not-very-full tummy doesn't back-flow as much, and also, nursing is a comforter, not just a food source. She also has a stuffy nose, we thought she might have hay fever, but this was another thing that cleared up when I went dairy free.

The best way to diagnose milk intolerance is to cut dairy out of the diet. Yours and his. So that means no milk, cheese, cream, yoghurt and so on for you, and no cow & gate for him! Allergy tests can return false positives and false negatives, and testing him for lactose intolerance (which has very similar symptoms, but is actually very rare) is pointless too, although even many healthcare pro's confuse the two. I had to explain the difference between lactose and cows milk protein intolerance to my health visitor!!

Everything you have said points towards CMPI, the best thing you can do is go dairy free (and soya too, as mentioned above) for two to three weeks and see what happens. Carry him upright in a sling as much as possible (a ring sling, not a baby bjorn type) and raise his head when he's asleep so he's not lying on his back. DD2 slept on her left side, facing me, propped at an angle (n a pillow, tut tut, naughty me) almost from birth. We co-slept with her in a sidecar cot, so I was right next to her and very aware of her breathing etc, so I felt it wasn't a big risk, and one that paid off by giving us all much more sleep than if we tried to lie her down flat on her back.

Good luck, you've had a rough start to being a mum, but hopefully you'll start to see brighter days if you can sort this out.

Dorchies · 24/06/2009 20:58

This sounds just like my little one. He is six weeks old today. He started off being very mucousy for the first few day. Then he had a funny cough, and gaspy breathing episodes, then he developed baby achne all over his head. He wont settle in his moses basket as he just vomits, but is happy in his bouncy chair. He is now vommitting after every feed and seems upset. I had diagnosed reflux - symptoms seem classic - but i;m now thinking i'll cut out dairy - i have nothing to lose!

His weight gain is fine and as i'm breastfeeding the HV advised no medication will really help.

Have you cut out the dairy yet? any progress?

Beachcomber · 25/06/2009 10:12

Dorchies that does sound really similar.

I'm amazed by the number of children who don't do well on dairy and especially by the number of doctors and HVs that don't seem to know anything about this problem.

Let us know how you both get on.

petnik · 25/06/2009 10:32

I had similar probs with my DD who is now 3. I started feeding her Enfamil Anti Relflux formula and she was sorted in a few days. You can read about it here Enfamil Product Page You can either buy it from the pharmacy or ask for it on prescription from your GP.

There are also some bottles which are supposed to be like breast feeding called BreastFlow You can see them on here BreastFlow so if you want to keep trying with breast feeding try these. If not I would recommend Dr Browns bottles. They are a bit more of a faff than ordinaary but they worked wonders for my DD.

Hope this helps

NotAnotherNewNappy · 25/06/2009 10:37

Hello EmmaLouise,

Congrats on your little one.

Lots of your post sounded v familiar to me..

Firstly the rash. Are you sure this isn't the usual baby acne rash that all BF babies get in their first few weeks? He is getting your hormones through your milk and so will erupt in big yellow heads on his cheeks at some point. If it is, they will be gone again in a week.

Secondly, the dreaded reflux. My DD is 10 mo now and her reflux has cleared up (she had the acid rather than the throwing up kind) but when she was 3 weeks old it was awful - she was inconsolable most of the time and it really got me down. Like you, I had the BF vs FF dilemma as at first she tended to be happier after each FF.

I remember keeping a feeding chart and there would be lots of faces after she had a BF and after a FF. However, we got through it - and she has been almost exclusively BF. I found that the baby gaviscon seemed to work better when I gave it to her mixed with a tiny bit of formula before each feed (1oz). I tried mixing it with water and with EBF but it just seemed to work better with formula. Some people might tell you this is a slippery slope to FF and that you can't mix feeding like this - I think it all comes down to how determined you are to BF. Give yourself a limit of how much FF you are prepared to let DS have a day and stick to it - 4oz just to mix the gaviscon with? How much gaviscon is your DS on? DD was on the max amount of about 5 or 6 double sachets a day at one point.

Lots of people might think you are mad if you continue to insist on BF, you might doubt yourself and wonder if you are making your baby unhappy. However, think about the long term and if you really want to bf, then stick to your guns. I used to express one boob and feed from the other first thing in the morning to make sure the tiny amount of formula I gave didn't affect my milk supply.

Finally, DD's reflux got steadily better but only went away when we started weaning - so you might want to introduce baby rice at 4 mo.

Best of luck x

PS - does posture help? DD had to be propped up and carried around in a sling all the time.

lobsters · 25/06/2009 20:12

Hello

My DD has reflux, my best advice is keep going back for medical advice until you are happy, and if you need it ask for a pediatric referral. We ended up switching to Enfamil, which was great for us, but I had more or less stopped bfing by that point anyway. She is also on 2 other meds, ranitidine and domperidone, the combination of the 3 changed our lives and kept the refluc under control. But before you try moving to formula I'd take the others' advice about cutting out dairy.

With regards to the spots, most babies get baby acne at this age. The other thing is with reflux babies (or at least with mine) sometimes she would vomit in her sleep and end up lying in it for a little while before I realised, and this would make her skin worse. I think the vomit was just blocking her pores. It didn't bother her and cleared up once the vomiting was reduced,

Beachcomber · 26/06/2009 08:08

Just a word of caution re formula.

I don't know how these things are done in the UK but here in France they like to test your child as much as possible for different levels of cow's milk protein allergy before considering formula.

I, for example, wanted to continue breast feeding but was offered these tests anyway. The results indicated that DD wouldn't have tolerated any of the normal formulas and would have needed hypoallergenic formula. Hypo formula is not very nice tasting, lots of babies refuse it, and it is not anything like as nutritionaly complete as breast milk.

I was glad that I didn't stop breast feeding as things could have got quite tricky for us otherwise.

Of course there are plenty of reflux babies who do well on regular formula but not on breast milk of a mother eating dairy. However it seems worth trying cutting out dairy first before doing anything else in my opinion.

Hope you are doing ok EmmaLouise.

Qally · 26/06/2009 12:25

"Yes,yes,yes. Any sort of rash, eczema, skin eruption in a baby that gets sick or has reflux is practically confirmation that this is some sort of food sensitivity, probably dairy."

Not necessarily! My son had all these when the poster's age, including serious reflux and a scaly, flaky, spotty rash all over his face, but it slowly subsided, and now at 8 months he has perfect skin, hasn't been sick in months, and chows down yoghurts, cheeses and cow's milk, as well as my milk, with relish. Food sensitivities aren't that common - they happen, sure, but most babies get baby acne, and are sicky at a few weeks old, and most babies are not intolerant.

Would also be a very odd dairy intolerance that meant a baby could eat cow's milk formula with no difficulty at all, but the traces of cow's milk products in mother's milk, from her own diet, made him react.

Beachcomber · 26/06/2009 14:34

Qally I know it seems odd re formula and breast milk.

According to my DD's allergist it is mainly because the protein in formula is transformed, and therefore easier to digest, as part of the production process. The very reason for this is that cow's milk protein is pretty indigestible for young human babies. The same protein passes into breastmilk relatively untransformed and hence can cause a problem.

I happen to disagree with you that food sensitivities aren't that common. I think they are hugely underdiagnosed in fact.

That's great that your son doesn't react to dairy now although it is entirely possible that he reacted to it in the past and has grown out of it. Just as, of course, it is entirely possible that he never had a problem with it. My second child grew out of her dairy intolerance at about 12 months but dairy in my milk made her violently sick as a young baby. Now she eats cheese and all sorts.

I just think that when a breast fed baby has symptoms such as stuffiness, reflux, vomiting and skin eruptions then there is a good chance that there is a food intolerance. It doesn't do any harm to consider the possibility and try going dairy free. Conversely my eldest child became quite ill due to an undiagnosed and untreated food allergy. I just try to help others who may be in a similar position to the one I was in a few years back. I would have loved to have known about MN and have somebody suggest that my child might be dairy intolerant.

Qally · 26/06/2009 22:47

Oh, I completely agree with you that it's worth getting a GP to refer you to a qualified paediatric specialist, on any concern about your kids, and that intolerances are no joke. And I replied after 3 days on 4 sleep - sorry, when I said "not that common" it was in reply to your saying almost all babies with reflux/baby acne probably were intolerant, which I thought was a bit of an overstatement. I agree that many food intolerances are probably not picked up on at all unless severe.

We had a guy with a serious peanut allergy at uni; such a tough thing to handle. Hope your child's resolves with time.

newmuminwonderland · 30/06/2009 01:47

Hi Emma Louise!

I'm a new mum too, but have previous nanny experience. I suggest visiting an osteopath who has experience with babies. This worked a treat with the baby girl in the family I worked for. The little angel had terrible reflux and needed her insides sorted out. Worth a try.

As for the skin, my dd has the same thing right now. I'm convinced it is baby acne. Everything that I have read (countless websites and several books) say that it will go in a few weeks and normally be completely gone by 4-6 months without treatment. Just keep the skin clean and dry and only wash once a day, no scrubbing! Also, no creams or oils on the face.

Best of luck, try not to worry too much, I'm sure that you will make the best decision for your baby. If you do decide to chose formula, you can always try Nannycare, it's made with goat's milk, so it might help if the problem is cow related.