Potty/Toilet training at over 3 years old

[PJA]

Our lad is 3 years and 2 months. He refuses to use the toilet (he is too big for a potty). He will not use it. Sometimes he will sit on the toilet and amazingly a wee appears - as if by magic!. We have tried the calm approach and the chocolate bribery approach and are just starting on the star chart with reward approach. This is after 12 months of reminding him and he does understand what we say but refuses.

We are getting hassle from nursery and to be honest the situation is ridiculous.

Any other novel ideas ?

PJA - have you tried putting a toddler toilet seat on the toilet? Or some kiddy patterned toliet paper? Or encouraging him by example - ussing the toilet just like Daddy. What would happen if you removed the potty altogether? Difficult one as toddlers can be very stubborn. Good Luck

tbh we found that "reminding" our ds was counter productive. Not only did it undermine his confidence to recognise when he needed to go but it irritated him too. Has he had any unfortunate toilet experiences (such as slipping off as nursery) which may give him negative associations ?

As he is old enough to understand the situation you could hand over responsibility for staying clean and dry to him (I'm assuming that he wets himself as the alternative). Make sure that he is happy with the set up at home and nursery(our ds did relapse a little last week when staying at Granma's because he had to go upstairs to the toilet and open a stairgate), perhaps add a step or seat if that makes it easier for him, and persist with the star chart. Agree with Grommit about removing the potty option from the equation.

If you manage that for a week or so you may just crack it.

Good luck

More......
We have the trainer seat on the toilet. Always have. DS also has a step that he uses to get on the toilet (with one of us standing there).
We have already removed the potty. He can easily remove his trousers and pants, put them back on, and wash his hands with no assistance.

Today is typical, 2 poos in pants and 1+ wees before lunchtime. Not a flicker of any attempt to ask to go to toilet or take himself of to toilet.

DS really doesn't mind sitting in a wet and stinky pair of pants all day. DS has never minded the feeling. If we asked him to be responsible for being clean and dry then he wouldn't care. Although it may be worth a try.

Current approach is to use the star chart with a prize every 5 stars. We'll give that a go for a few weeks.

Talk about being fed up !!!!
especially when DD of just 16 months will, without being asked, go and get a new nappy and baby wipes and lay down in front of you asking to be changed, That's more like it !!

PJA- I'll jump in here- with a bit of a warning. There is more on potty training in behaviour and development.

Had to take ds1 to the dr's this morning as he hadn't done a wee for 40 hours. He will be 4 next month (is autistic) and is physically ready for training. I used some new tactics and it seemed to be going well- but then he just stopped going.

The dr decided to give him until tomorrow morning (after giving him a thorough physical check). He has been three times in the last three hours (big wees). But he hasn't told me when he has gone. Usually he takes his nappy off immediately and says "mmdan" - toilet. This makes me suspect that not going has been psychological to do with the potty training. I haven't been harsh on him- just told him to do wees on the toilet- I guess it's been too much. Help!

PJA, just wondering, has your ds actually seen his father standing up to do a wee? Just curious as you mention 'sitting' on the toilet - he might think it a novel idea to do it standing up as opposed to sitting?

Good point. This morning is typical. Ds is asked to go to toilet when he gets up. Ds is asked if he would like to stand or sit. Sit he says. So he sits and nothing happens after 5 minutes. Ds then watches dh stand up and have a wee. 5 minutes later Ds has done a wee in pants but denies he has.

Perhaps try him on the toilet after watched dh tomorrow.

I'll perserve. He's sure to crack it eventually...........

PJA

Lots of sympathies as your ds sounds so much like ours - he would also deny it vehemently. Things turned a corner when (sorry this is a bit graphic) he pooed himself whilst in Mc Donalds for a treat but then denied it. I was fuming but basically went along with it. He stayed like that until we got home and he finally admitted it. Up to that point he'd really not cared too much either. I know this sounds gross and probably cruel too but it did seem to awaken his sensibilities to the extent that he was also dry at night 3 months later when he turned 4.

We too have dd aged 20 months who is more interested in the potty already than ds ever was

• perhaps a boy/girl thing. I too live in hope of it being easier with her.

Good luck

Update....
The Bank Holiday seems to have been a turning point. Out of the blue, ds asked to go to toilet for a wee-wee. My jaw hit the floor. He stood up like daddy and got on with it. Since then he has either asked to go, or more usually just taken himself off to toilet and got on with it - even washing his hands afterwards.
Same for poos - just takes himself off to toilet and gets on with it unaided ('till I come and help to do the neccessaries!).
He's now in normal pants and had no accidents in the last 5 days.

I'm not sure what happened but fingers crossed that the relevant mental switch seems to have been switched.

We've been using the star chart with a treat every five e.g. a trip out or a friend round for the afternoon - things that would be happening normally but making them seem like a treat he has earned.

Hurrah !

Well done to your ds. Your story gives me hope for my ds. He is 3 in Sept, but needs to be dry for play school, but he has no interest in this potty training business. I am hoping that we will be able to get it sorted out in the summer school holidays so that he can go to play school on his own in Sept. Fingers crossed!!

Fantastic news PJA - you must be thrilled, and relieved.

PJA, that's great news! All of a sudden it just 'clicks', doesn't it. I'm still trying to get my ds to do his poos in the toilet - he will happily sit on the loo and pretend that he has been, but when it comes to the 'crunch' he insists on a nappy. Oh well, he'll get it eventually!

.... update (for people who more visit this thread in the future).

Following our Bank Holiday success in May, things went backwards the next week. Ds will not do anything in the toilet unless he is taken to the toilet. He will then pull down pants and do a wee (most of the time). He will not do poos. Not under any situation.

He insists on doing poos in his pants and usually while he is at nursery. The nursery have finally issued us a letter saying that this is not acceptable (their policy is that a child should be at least partially trained) and we've decided to take him out of nursery.

This is very bad news for ds as he really enjoys nursery, but we think he really likes the attention he gets by doing poos in his pants.
We will also give up his place for nursery in Septemeber if he doesn't improve.

The last few days have been very bad, and ds refuses to go to the bathroom unless physically carried and placed in front on the toilet. He then calms down and gets on with it.

Current plan is to be calm, non threatening and go with the flow. If he's not ready then he's not ready.
When he poos in his pants, we talk calmly to him and give him plenty of time to cover the same conversation about where poos go. He also gets plenty of our attention all the time and especially when he manages to wee in the toilet (including gold stars, stickers and mystery gifts).
At the same time, we take him to the toilet on a regular basis saying that it doens't matter if nothing happens - he still gets a star for trying.

I hope that one day it'll click, either physically or mentally and we can get on with life again.
(He is now 3yrs 4 months).

PJA, all sympathies, our ds, 3.1, is resisting any attempts to potty train. He is happy in nappies and if I put him in pants, he denies he has done anything until he becomes uncomfortable then demands I put dry clothes on him. We have tried all the usual recommendations andI have now put everything on hold (yet again). He needs to be fairly trained for pre-school which starts in Sept so I shall have to try again soon.

PJA, that's a real shame, especially about the nursery. Have you looked at the ERIC website at all? They have a helpline you could ring.

I was really hopeful that ds (3.3) would 'perform' on the toilet today, I had persuaded him over the past 2 days to sit on the loo using the trainer seat and he seemed quite happy, did a couple of wees whilst sitting down (he is OK with wees standing up, but it was a novelty) but when it came to the 'crunch' today, he was insisting on having a nappy on and getting himself in a state, so I gave in. I don't want him to get so upset he gets constipated. I guess he will get there soon enough, I'm sure your ds will too, PJA.

I do feel sad for you that this has affected his time at nursery, My ds2 aged 2 and three quarters still does the odd poo in his pants - normally when distracted. It drives me nuts as often he is really near a loo at thetime.
I must admit I go against allthe child care manuals and tell him off - not to reduce him totears just am quite sharp with him .

I just have to say this can be so frustrating can't it. My dd was commonly known as Poppy pooey pants as it took nearly a year to train her. We didn't start til she was 2 and 6 months, it took about 6 months to be dry (we went back to nappies for a while) and she wasn't clean until she was 3 and 6 months. Fortuneately the pre-school were OK as she only had a couple of accidents there, but there was at least one a day at home!

Conversely her younger sister (exactly 2 yrs younger) started to train herself at 20 months and took 2 weeks to be clean and dry most of the time. We still have the odd accident, but maybe once a week.

We only had a 3 month gap from one to the other So I have had the 2 extemes

No news in the last few days although it's nice to know ds isn't the only one.

Midwife says that its not regarded as a "problem" until they are 7 or 8 !. Wow. I'd be amazed if a child could get to 7 and still be in nappies/trainer pants. (She also said that was to be dry during the day and they say 11 or 12 to be dry at night). It's not the nights that bothers me its the days and the amazing poo at nursery ability (2 out of every 3 days guarenteed).

Anyway. It'll happen eventually.

As a final update and perhaps to give hope to others in a similar situation you'll be glad to know that ds did eventually start to use the toilet.

It was magical. One day in August '03 when ds was 3.5 he came downstairs and out of the blue stated "I'm a big boy now and I use the toilet".

We were gobsmacked. However true to his word he immediately started doing all poos and wees in the toilet. I can't remember a single accident since that day.

It was such a relief.