BEDTIME nightmare with boys aged 4 and 8 sharing same room........

[triggerfish]

HELP!! I cannot seem to get our boys to sleep at a reasonable time. They both share a room which just has to be as we don't have the luxury of them having separate rooms. If the 4yr old is not asleep by the time we send the 8yr old to bed, then all hell breaks loose!!! Any ideas, besides a mallet or sedaton (the latter sounds great!!) to help them get to sleep?
We have tried set routines but that doesn't seem to help as they want different things.
We are at our lowest with this as it seems so out of our reach..... its not funny now (PLEASE SENSE THE TONE!!!).

One of my nanny families put the older child to sleep in the parents room until either teh parent went to bed or the younger one went to sleep the older one would be moved. This worked for a few months then we tried again and they did much better together. It meant the none of the adults was getting frustrated, the children were going to sleep without being grumped at and it didn't last forever. Hope this helps.

I can really symphathise I have two girls, a five year old and a very nearly seven year old, am a single mum. I dread bedtime because even if I've been really organised and got them to their rooms early they still have me chasing up and down the stairs either answering their ridiculous requests or me trying to get them out of each others rooms - it sends me derranged. I'd like to know how to stay on track and get my girls to realise I mean what I say and that they should do as I ask...

Away from bed time when they are not tired, maybe in the morning, can you sit them down and talk to them about bed time. And get their ideas (particular the older one) of how to make it better and build a rule list or sticker chart to reinforce the agreement???
I know it sounds a bit crazy but maybe it may click with them if they have some input into the routine? It doesn't sound like it could make anything worse. Good luck..