I know how to be a good mother, I just can?t seem to do it.

[OrangeSpacedust]

I fail at being a mother every day. I mainly subscribe to the AP/UP approach and have such a gentle, hippie, child-centred philosophy, and other people think I?m such a chilled-out mum. But on my own, at times I just can?t seem to stop myself seeing red at ?testing? things that DD (4) does, and I end up shouting, or physically removing her from the situation in a way that, I can?t kid myself, is bordering on the violent. She?s 4 and I?ve never hit her or her 2-year-old sister, and am 99.9% sure I never would. But I reckon some of the stuff I do is just as bad, if not worse.

This morning I physically dragged her along the pavement by the hand for a short way, because she wouldn?t stand up and she wouldn?t walk. Not fast, it didn?t hurt her, but it?s still abusive, right? And carrying her (while also trying to push the buggy) resulted in kicking and screaming. And there seemed to be no reason for her mood at all. I?d spent 15 minutes kindly asking her what was wrong, why she didn?t want to move or go home, distracting her by pointing things out, telling her what we would do when we got home, what we would have for lunch, etc etc. Though I just can?t bring myself to say anything along the lines of:

?If you don?t come now you won?t get any XXX.?
?If you come home now, I?ll give you XXX.?
?I?m going to count to three, then ??

I just can?t say any of that stuff. Yes, it would work in the short term, but IMO it?s just a short cut and I don?t want to use bribes and threats like that. I try and try to think of the right words to say, but I run out eventually, and snap. I know that when I snap, it?s out of frustration at MYSELF for not having the intellectual tools to resolve the situation with words. I don?t think it?s in any way DD?s ?fault?. I know she?s just being a 4-year-old.

It?s as if a little switch flicks in my mind and I go into Authoritarian Mummy mode, because that?s the easiest way to be, in the end. It involves the least thought.

I?m a quiet person, not particularly quick-thinking, and often simply can?t think of things to say to the kids. I just know they?re going to run rings round me when they?re older.

I know there are mothers who never raise their voice at their kids, never get irritable, etc. My own mother was one. Her patience never ran out, and I had an idyllic childhood. And I feel like I fail to be like her and mess up with my own kids all the time.

Any suggestions most gratefully received. TIA.

Thanks Nikki, I appreciate your motive in trying to make me feel better. I know 95% of people do shout at their kids and I'm not alone. But I still don't think that necessarily makes it right, that it's far too normalised, and that there's nothing wrong with striving to eliminate it completely, or almost completely, if I possibly can!

What do you AP types do when it's not just desirable but essential that a certain outcome occurs - eg crossing the road with a three year old who then stops or dawdles more slowly and traffic is approaching. There's no time to negotiate surely; they just HAVE to do what you tell them in what would be a firm and determined voice, no ? And if that's the case why not extend the firm voice into other arenas eg when the child is being unpleasant to a friend..

Oh I yell sometimes, as well, and have had to manhandle a kicking raging child sometimes. But I also try to make sure that I frequently praise DS and tell him how much he is loved, as well. I don't think it does children any harm to see that adults get annoyed sometimes (and so do other children).

OrangeSpaceDust, I think I know where you are coming from.

I try to avoid using my physical strength to force my children to do something but sometimes when you have explained and reasoned with young children there is no option, particularly when letting them do it there way is going to create a genuine problem for others (rather than just a mild inconvenience for the parents).

I regularly have to hoik (sp?) DS out of the bath because he is upsetting his sister or to pick up DD (who is also 4)and sometimes refuses to budge but we are going to miss the school bus if she stays put.

15 minutes is too long explaining for a 4 yr old IMO. No wonder you snap! If you can wait until she is ready to walk, just wait. If you can't (eg because little sis is starting to get hungry) then explain to your DD why you need her to walk now and if she isn't ready to comply, you just have to pick her up and get on with it but without losing your rag.

OK. Coming back to explain properly why I thought Nikki's comments were out of order - on a thr. ead posted by someone who clearly stated they chose to parent in a specific way, she to say how ineffective that method was.

I respect the way that OP has chosen to parent. It's more or less the same as mine but it doesn't mean that you let your child do as they please. You encourage them to do the right thing yes, and explain why, but there are times when a firm hand is required. No-one says you can never raise your voice or state your displeasure.

But the OP did pretty much say that - she said:

"I know there are mothers who never raise their voice at their kids, never get irritable, etc. My own mother was one. Her patience never ran out, and I had an idyllic childhood. And I feel like I fail to be like her and mess up with my own kids all the time."

I think it's fair to point out that that is probably an impossible dream for most people - even you Orm say you don't attempt this and most of us think it's too much to ask. Plus the OP is finding she can't do it - she snaps. And she asked for advice. So I think it's completely reasonable to come on this thread and suggest maybe never getting annoyed and never raising your voice is too much to aim for, will wear you out, and possibly won't do you any favours, and it might be better to stop beating yourself up and accept imperfection.

Can I just say that (in nikki's defense) I saw a very interesting House of Tiny Tearaways where Tanya Byron explained to the mum that her children didn't know that they were being told off and that she needed to speak sternly and raise her voice (without loosing control of her temper). The mum found it really difficult to accept this, fearing that her children wouldn't love her.

I also found it hard to switch from mum of babies to mum of children, who need to learn to do things that don't always suit them, for the greater good.

OrangeSpaceDust, I am a far more shouty mother than I want to be. When I do lose it, I apologise and explain why I lost my temper. Generally, I then make a deal with the child (mostly DD1 who's 5, as DD2 (3 yo) cannot always manage this) that I will try harder not to lose my temper if she tries harder not to do whatever I lost the place at. That way, she sees that adults are not perfect but that we can acknowledge we were wrong and apologise for it.

OrangeSpaceDust, when my children were younger I shouted far far more at them, horribly at times and sometimes I hated myself for it. But as they have got older it has become far far less because the way you can communicate with them gets so much easier. So, maybe you can't remember your mum ever being cross because you don't remember the time when you were very young so well? What I'm trying to say is: Hang in there, things get easier and there is still every chance that your children will remember their childhood as purely idyllic.

I would like to add that I also thought of myself as an AP parent, yet still ended up being quite disciplinarian at times. Now my daughters are widely acknowledged to be extremely well behaved. Whether they turned out that way in spite of or because of my parenting I will never know, but it doesn't seem to have done much harm anyway, and we have a very good relationship. I believe that as long as shoutiness is counterbalanced by lots and lots of positive attention and affection you will be alright.

Isn't there a spectrum of parenting that goes Neglectful Liberal - Loving Liberal - Authoratative - Authoritarian where the first and last are undesirable, and the two middle ones represent capable loving parents. You say you don't have the intellectual tools to explain something, but really its the kids age, isn't it. But because you try they probably will grow up with a mature understanding of things. Personally I'm more for boundaries and couldn't have coped with being a parent without this approach - you say they work short term not long term, but I actually think putting down the boundary is much harder in the short term but pays off in spades in the long term. [like I personally couldn't put up with the kids coming into my bed every night for years on end, but would put up with getting up repeatedly to settle them back in their own beds for a few nights knowing it would give my desired result in the longer term i.e. that they stay there.] My five year old tells me 'there are too many rules in our house' so i try to ease up on her a bit if I think I am being too strict. My friends think i am calm but I am more than capable of being shouty mum on many occasions, we all do it probably. My excuse is that kids have to see us express our emotions in order to understand their own

one little thing that has helped me loads with my demanding dd is actually to say yes a bit more. It felt like a bit of an epihany moment when my sister suggested i try it with my 5.5 dd. My dd is particualy demanding on outings e.g. wants lunch as soon as we get to destination (even if 9.30am!), wants to go in gift shop, wants to have sweets / ice cream , wants everything she sees on the adverts etc. So instead of saying no you can't have , I say yes you can but you must save up your money, put on christmas list/ put on birthday list etc.. she accepts this and doesn't ask again.. and she can (usually) have said item for her birthday or whatever so I am not lying just teaching her delayed gratification . She usually forgets or changes her mind in any case. not sure how long this will last and whether it will eventually backfire but so far so good

I can certainly empathise with the OP, I feel double guilt because I WOH so feel I really should be the perfect parent when I'm with the DC and I don't cut myself much slack.

DH has said I set us impossible standards .

I also agree with your way of parenting and would agree that although it is tougher and harder work NOW I truly believe it will pay-off long-term.

Neither DH or I want the kind of authoritative "do as I say no questions asked" relationship we had with our parents.

On the other hand, I do get a slight hint from your OP that you might be veering slightly TOO far on the "child-centred approach".

Your fear that dragging along the road was "abusive" (not that I'm advocating it on a daily basis ) I think is a little excessive and maybe your kids sense that you feel guilty and so push you a bit harder to get a reaction???

This is long enough so I'll stop!