People that don't use the word naughty what do you use instead??

[nappyaddict]

So far all DS' problems have been with hurting other people so i've always said that's not nice. Wonderfully he seems to be coming out of that phase and not so wonderfully seems to be going into another one. Now he is doing things like purposefully pouring his drink on the floor when I've told him not to, throwing toys when i've told him he'll break them, running off when he's helping me sweep the drive or wash the car. Saying that's not nice doesn't really seem to be the right thing to say cos you can't really be nice to a thing iyswim. So what should I say instead? Would you say that's bad, or that's bad behaviour? I'm sort of drawing a blank.

Possibly true, TheFM. I tend to think though that the true affective context is the perosnality of the child. Some will brush such comments off, some will be deeply affected.

My sister has brushed it off better than I have - she was hit more than she was name-called, but she was far more rascally than me and pushed my parents to the limit far more often!

I think there was a considerable and tangible degree of love from my parents but they were ignorant to my perception of their comments and this is why there is a risk that we can damage (I use this term cautiously) our children without realising.

The fact that school reinforced my worthlessness didn't help. My parents would not have known the extent to which school was hurting me emotionally and so it would have been a safer bet to lay off the name calling at home and focussed on improving my behaviour in a positive and helpful way.

I have many times told my own DC that they are silly,etc. instead of talking about the behaviour but I am as careful as I can be about makign them understand it is their actions and not their being that is a problem.

I was always 'boring'.

'oh shut up, you're boring'

Maybe I am. I've not yet managed to look at myself objectively. It makes contributing to social events hard.

I try to explain consequences of his actions to him (DS1 aged 3.5),

"If you drop that piece of toast on the floor then you will pick it up and put it in the bin, Mummy will not be making you any more'

"We don't leave Lego out when DS2 (aged 10mths) is around otherwise he will eat it and have a sore tummy"

It seems to work, I do get asked 'Why?' alot, but I grit my teeth and explain again (and again...and again).

MIL visited a few weeks ago and told DS1 that he was naughty for having thrown a toy, that stuck in his mind and I had a week of him telling me that he was going to 'be naughty' like Norman in Fireman Sam!

I see what you mean about the child and how they take it, but that is part of the relationship too, surely. The parent, the child and the relationship between them, at the risk of coming over all attachment theory.

Not sure what 'attachment theory' is, but I'm sure I could find a thread about it somewhere!

I just think that they are people (albeit tiny ones) and as such deserve an explanation why you are asking them to do (or not do) something.

There's nothing wrong with "That's naughty."

Oh I agree. And I'm really not as awful as I make out. But I stress less about vocab I think. And I like to make exaggerated threats to defuse stand-offs.

DS1 looks like he has the potential to be a bit of a bookworm and enjoys doing fiddly things (like lego or jigsaws). So I think that I may have had it easy, as he doesn't do much that may be regarded as 'naughty'. DS 2, on the other hand, is turning out to be a bit of a monkey, so give it 6 months and I may be rethinking my parenting style!!!

Agree with soup dragon. Saying the behaviour is naughty is fine.
Nappy addict - check how often you're using negative and positive comments around him. That ratio should be about 5 positive comments to every negative one.

well i suppose just saying 'naughty' isn't very helpful to the child who is trying to work out boundaries and reasons and learn about being a useful member of the family blah blah

i mean being more specific eg "don't throw your drink because it makes a mess and mummy has to clean it up and i am busy" is more helpful to the child than "don't be naughty"

"don't hit paul because it hurts and makes him sad, and you're his friend - we don't treat our friends like that, and you mustn'y hit people because you're cross - if you are cross, just say so" contains LOADS of information for the child to work with
"stop being naughty" really doesn't

Why a 5:1 ratio? Where does that come from?

yep, agree with Frank. The fine line is between enough info and too much...all age dependent!

I do use naughty. But I use it in the sense of "that's so naughty - you don't take chocolate without asking" - I don't say "you're a naughty boy". Mind you, he calls me a naughty girl :-)

I like the choices thing - will use that myself!

i say "we don't do.....(fill in name of thing that ds does all too often)" quite sternly whch has worked up to now (nearly 2). if it seems to need underlining i add a brief explanation of why we dont (eg because it makes a mess, because it hurts the dog, etc) but not too much detail as he seems to give up listening if its any longer than about five words.
but not sure how much longer it will be effective. the other day he did something or other and was looking at me hopefully in the way they do when they know theyve been naughty and are waiting to see what happens, and i opened my mouth and he said "I'm not laughing" in EXACTLY the same tone i do when he is finding being naughty hilarious, (and im not). so i suspect it wont be long before "we dont do.." is being mocked as well......

FallenMadonna it's a general ratio - doesn't have to be that specific. It's advice I've heard many times on behaviour management training as a teacher. Basically you have to ensure that the child receives more +ve than -ve comments. Sometimes you have to purposely catch them being good to make the +ve comments. It does work.

I don't think calling him babyish would work. He is still a baby really. Neither would going back to a sippy cup at home as he uses a sippy cup when we are out and about anyway.

I don't really no how many positive comments he gets. He doesn't really get many positive or negative comments as I try to stay quite neutral about things unless they are really bad or really good iyswim. I don't believe in overpraising and praising him for things that are expected of him like him sitting down when i tell him to or lying still to have his nappy changed etc. My friend praised her little boy for nearly everything and did sticker and reward charts galore. Now he expects praise for every mortal thing he does even something simple like putting on his shoes and won't do anything unless he knows it is going to benefit him in some way of a reward. Now she really regrets going down that route so I think I'll give that a miss.

Sort of on topic, I was chatting to my Mum today about how if we asked for sweets for example or seconds of something 'treaty' my Mum would always say 'well they're not good for you and I hope they'll make you sick, then you won't want them again'. Took away any pleasure or joy from nice foods and turned me into an emetophobe. My Mum is horrified today and says she just wanted us to not eat too many sweets.

"Now darling, that's verging on the psychopathic"

"Darling, you're making me look like a shit mother."

I agree - I don't like sticker charts and rewards and unwarranted praise, they can be counter productive. The neutral comments reminds me of Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting, which I'm actually a big fan of. But I thought you said in your op that you were telling him that things he did weren't very nice a lot, which is why I recommended adding in some more positive comments. Positively reinforcing the behaviour that you want from them isn't going to ruin them and children don't always know how we want them to behave.

Franny, I'm interested in what you said re info to work with:

"don't hit paul because it hurts and makes him sad, and you're his friend - we don't treat our friends like that, and you mustn'y hit people because you're cross - if you are cross, just say so" contains LOADS of information for the child to work with"

I've really stopped doing that, bcs I found with DS particularly that I could almost see his synapses sizzling as he tried to evaluate which was the key bit of information in the whole.

Also I have huuuge tendency to go on and on and freaking on until I've battered them into submission.

Now I try to say 'Don't hit Paul - no-one likes to be hurt' or 'Stop - if you're cross, use words to show it." All followed by an Okay? to which I expect him to respond Okay, mum. (he's 7 though, so he can, and in fact the things he does aren't hitting but 7 yr old things)

And then take a huge breath and MOVE ALONG...

It's recent, but it really does seem to be working.

yes onebat i was thinking the same after i posted! i agree with a lot of what you are saying
i think the discussion is useful though - but maybe AFTER the event
they generally need more info than "it's naughty" - but WHEN to introduce this is the key, i guess

I always give the info after the event as well.