The psychology of potty training

[canwefixit]

Hello all. This the first time I have attempted to message here so I hope I do it right!
My problem is this.....
My DS1 is three and a half and I have tried unsucessfully on a number of times to potty train him.
So far I have tried the pattern of taking his nappy off and then offering him the potty at regular intervals (with experimentation as to how long to leave inbetween offerings) and rewarding him when he produces something on the potty. The nappy off period has lasted for about 3-4 weeks at each attempt and eventually I have been forced to put the nappy back on and carry on as we were so that we can lead some sort of normal life - ie leave the house!

Unfortunatley this has really brought no visable improvment in his ability to actually take control of the situation himself. It is o.k. if I time it right but he does not make any attempt to get on the potyy (or loo) himself and does not tell me when he has wet/soiled himself. I have on ocasion got cross about this and shouted at him in a fairly unproductive way but I guess emotions get the better of us all at times.

About 6 months ago I read some of the mums net threads on this subject and concluded that the best approach would be to wait untill he shows some sort of sign...

He is still not showing any sort of signs and in fact seems to be possitively resisting attempts as he hardly ever produces anything on the potty even though he sometimes sits there for ages (not sure that's even good for him) he also is very uncooperative about having his nappy changed. I have had numerous conversations with him about how he wouldn't have to have his nappy chganged if he would use the potty or toilet but with very little from him. Sometimes he says "o.k then, no nappys I would like my pants on" but then within an hour I'm cleaning him up and back on goes the nappy.

He is a very srong willed child and I am concerned that he has cracked onto the fact that this is one thing that he can control and there is no way I can physically make him go where he doesn't want to go. Because of this I try to keep talk etc about the negative aspects of this too a minimum, as I don't want to reward behaviour that I don't want with any kind of attention, however he can most likely see that it winds me up - he's not stupid!

I just can't help feeling that I am missing something and wonder if anyone has any behaviour management type of techniques that be appropriate. For reasons outlined in the above paragraph I really don't want to wait untill he gets this on his own and am also concerned that his dad and I may end up giving him a complex about the whole issue! Could there be smaller steps that I could break this into for him?

My background to this is that I run a day nursery, have early years professional status and am an experienced teacher of children this age and older(so you might imagine that I would know what I'm doing here) I have seen zillions of children go this this process and although they may have taken more than one go at this I haven't noticed this level of resistance (although I understand it can be different at home. He is currently the oldest child in my nursery who is still in nappies which is a bit!) I am very aware that all children develop at different stages but I don't want to change his nappies any more and he doesn't want to have them changed either. Please help!

Okay

First of all I can feel the anxiety radiating from you around this issue

Can you take all the pressure off, stop confusing him by trying with trying pants for a morning then getting cross and going back into nappies. Just stay with nappies for the moment, no need to talk to him about it, don't commment, no attention.

Wait til the summer then, as he is a bit older, don't bother with the potty, go straight to the toilet, with a trainer seat if you like.

Why should you not let your son lead in this? Not being horrid genuinely curious.

I am going to offer a different choice, take away the nappies altogether. I think that DS knows that eventually he gets his nappies back on even if he doesn't like them, and this allows him to carry on ignoring his toilet needs as he did when he was a baby (the attitude that someone always cleans him up eventually, so it doesn't matter.) I notice that he is at your nursery, could you ask a member of staff there to take charge of his training while he's there? I say this because they will be a lot less stressed and more relaxed about the whole thing. He could wear just pants while there. Could he be paired with another child or two who are being trained? Peer involvement works well, they can be potty buddies and use the potty together (much more inducement if there's someone else to chat to while sitting down! You can continue the good work at home, sticking to the plan used at nursery. DS wants out of nappies, you want him out of them, presumably so do nursery, so do not think of this as a failure on your behalf.

I suggest that you tell him that you know he can do it, and you have complete faith in his ability, and so there will be no more nappies. Provide all the options, potties, toilet with child seat, and leave him naked from the waist down at home so that he is now in charge, he can help himself to whichever receptacle entirely independently. Think about some sort of training pants for when you really cannot afford an accident, but not pull-ups as they are too much like nappies. Some sort of pocket pants that you can put an aborbent layer in, but made of cloth.

Wear a 'poker face' when he has an accident. No shouting, no blame, pretty much no comment. He knows it bugs you, so showing no response provides no opportunity for a battle. I know it's hard. Accept that there are accidents; when it comes down to it, even quite old children have accidents. Ask yourself why it upsets you so much. Is it having to clean up constantly, or the fact that you are supposed to know how to do this and feel a failure, or is it the sheer frustration that a child can manipulate you to such an extent? Show him how to clean up, and involve him. Think of ways to cope with the possible damage to your carpets and upholstery (my friend used to put pampers bed mats under a throw on her sofa) Sit him on something absorbent in the carseat/supermarket trolley/cafe seat when you do go out.

Whether you decide to use treats, sweets etc as inducements is up to you, but I don't see the need. It's just another thing you will need to wean off, and some children become so fixated on them they forget the reason why they're getting them in the first place!

Thanks for the messages guys...
I,m really not sure about allowing DS to lead in this because, well, that just isn't my parenting style. I didn't wait untill DS1 or 2 were ready to sleep through the night, I decided that I needed my sleep and got on with it. I also didn't wait until they were ready to stop breast feeding, I did it for 6 months and then decided that it was time to move on.

I want to help him to grow up (in appropriate stages) and I am quite happy that there is no reason why at three and a half he can't leave nappies behind. I think that in his life he will fair better if he does learn to confrom to the norms of society (particularly pooing in the loo.)

Please don't think I am mega controlling of my children's every move, I am very much into child centered learning.

So how on earth do I sugest that he wants to go in the loo? (as opposed to not wanting to wear nappies or have them changed)

I am liking the idea of the no more nappies approach and I'm thinking, after intitial discussion with him i am best not talking too much about it, either positive or negative?? This making it more something for him rather than something to please/wind up Mummy and Daddy?

I think the trick is in persuading him that he wants to do it in the first place because I have found that unlike with sleeping and breast feeding I can't just say "o.k. sweetie, mummy's here but we're not getting up any more/you're having a bottle now" etc This issue is more a doing something than an absence of something,

The ladies at nursery are very supportive and he does have a potty buddie already but it just seems to be going on and on and I am scared of going for it re accidents all of the house with a crawling baby at home. I guess it's just a case of grit your teeth and smile - is it?!

Anyway, thanks again both of you, I'm planning my next move....any more tips greatfully recieved!

canwefixit, don't over analyse the situation. I can sense fear in your last post, there isn't anything to be afraid of here. It's only wee and poo. As I said before, plan your damage limitation, and get a good carpet cleaning product. The baby won't come to any lasting harm from crawling through a wet patch, and chances are you'll smell a poo before the baby gets to it. Make sure DS helps clean up, eventually he'll start to think it would be easier to do it in the right place.

I think you're right that sometimes you have to instigate training. Some children would continue using nappies until they were 5 if they were allowed to, because it is what they've always done, and no-one has offered an alternative. I feel that waiting too long for a child to be 'ready' can fail, as having been nappy trained, why would they want to be toilet trained?

Just go for it. Explain that DS is a big boy now and he doesn't want nappies anymore, so now he will use the toilet like other big boys and grownups. Emphasize that he can be in charge of his own needs. He will have everyones approval. He won't need the hated nappy changes. He will look smart in his new pants, and also in his clothes without a bulky nappy showing.You could let him choose some new trousers/jeans when he has been dry for a few days to reinforce this pride in his new appearance.

Dad can help him stand to wee. You can put a piece of cereal in the loo to help his aim, or one of those ping pong ball things that float. You could let him stand next to a little friend and wee into the loo together. I am a great fan of peer pressure. Get some books about using the loo. Let him choose a loo seat that he likes, and some character pants. When he finally chooses to poo, you can play 'count the plops!' I know it sounds gross, but instilling a bit of toilet humour may relax the mood a bit. When out, you can let him wee on the grass or behind trees, I've never known a little boy who didn't enjoy that! It will help him stay dry more than anything else.

You may decide to insist on toilet visits after meals, DS taking himself or asking to go at other times. Perhaps your baby could sit on the potty at the same times so that he doesn't feel picked on. (And may help the baby's training later.)

Hi.

No advice, just sympathy.(DS2 is 3.7 and just got there with the wees this week, stil prolems with poos)

Thanks again, I'm mentally preparing myself! Much amused by the idea of baby DS2 on a potty!!

Well, if baby DS2 manages to do something in the potty, it might spur DS1 on, not to be outdone by a baby! For DS2, intregating sitting on the potty into his daily routine this early certainly won't do any harm, as long as you only acknowledge successes and completely ignore an empty pot, even if he soils his nappy as soon as it goes back on. It is punishing for not doing anything that causes the trauma, or doing it in the wrong place. He only needs to sit for 2-3 minutes, unless happy to sit a little longer.

I would put a 5 minute limit on DS1 as well, it won't help him identify the need to go if he just sits for ages waiting for something to happen.

By the way, I found that swimming shorts were good for my DS to wear in the warmer weather, the sort with a mesh pants sewn into them. They usually have an elasticated waist, and because they are effectively one garment are easy to pull down and up. They will not soak up an accident, but this can be advantageous as the child knows they are wet as it runs down their legs! However they are really quick to wash through by hand and dry if you are running short of clothes. (And handy on holiday.)

Hi again, had mini breakthrough at nursery this week... standing up weeing is a big thing among the little boys and DS1 has been ripping off his nappies and running off to join them! On holiday next week but thinking of binning the napies for good when we get home - wish me luck!

Hello CanWeFixIt

We are having same sort of problems with DD who is also very storng willed, went to Doctor on a totally unrelated thing for me but mentioned that I am finding potty training stressful (DD is 3.3 and can just sit there and wet herself and either doesn't notice or doesn't care), she told me that 10% of 3 year olds are emotionally detached from potty training, i.e. couldn't care less but this drops to 4% at 4 so maybe he is one of those as I know DD is.

We also ask DD in the morning if she wants a nappy or pants, if she chooses pants then we remind her that she needs to wee on the potty or toilet.