How much expression of "negative" emotion do you find acceptable in your children?

[KTNoo]

I couldn't think how to word that better.

This is something I've been wondering about. My parents brought me up to suppress most emotion, particularly "negative" feelings like anger and sadness. They still don't really show any emotion themselves and try to put a fake positive spin on everything.

When I had my own 3 dc I gradually realised I wanted them to be able to feel and express all emotions. I find it difficult as it was so different for me, but I think we're doing ok. My parents would consider crying in anger to be "naughty behaviour" whereas I am comfortable with my dc doing this as long as they are not being aggressive at the same time.

However as they get older (they are 8, 6 and 3) I realise they need to learn some control. DS age 6 still has huge tantrums sometimes, although they are getting less frequent. He sometimes does this in public (in front of my mortified parents!) and it is almost impossible to calm him down until he has let it all out. I don't really have a problem with this, but I often see other people trying to stop their children screaming and I wonder if I should be trying to do the same?

At what age (generally speaking) do you think children should be learning to control their emotions and express themsleves in a more "civilised" way?

Sorry that's terribly rambly but I'd really like to hear opinions on this.

I think they learn themselves to do this, especially at school when in front of friends.

I have always allowed mine to be angry, frustrated or what evermood seems appropriate really, DS did used to have terrible rages Funnily enough at about the age of 7, I think this can be fairly commen at this age. Its a funny age for emotions, they want to cry like babies but don't want to be seen, they still want mummy to kiss it better but are trying to be big and strong.

They also start to realise they are not the centre of the universe and this seems a bit discontcerting for some children, they start to realise, teachers don't live in the school, people have other things going on in their lives, there are wars, arguments and all sorts of non nice things.

Having said that if DC were at the age of 6 having a tantrum they would be marched off to a quiet place and bascily told to calm down, Depends on why they are tantruming, I would maybe say look I understand you are angry but thats not they way to deal with it.

If they hurt themselves and felt the need to cry then fine, but if they were having a strop over icecream then no as to me that is not the best way to let them deal with it, I would maybe turn it around by saying look you are not having an icecream now but maybe after lunch, or special way of giving if where you add conditions, like fine have the ice cream but that is instead of the toy, but this would be before crying and screaming as I wouldn't give in if they resorted to that.

I think they do need firm boundries with emotions and perhaps not allowed to cry and scream like a banshee in public, or at home.

Did I just totally contradict muself , time for bed I think.

Just had this discussion with DH tonight. Our DS who is 9 is very expressive of his emotions.
I am sure his behaviour would be seen as inappropriate by many especially our parent's generation. He doesn't seem to know when to stop, and gets himself into such a state at times.

We were more fearful of adults, and had to control our emotions. However I don't want my DC to be fearful of me. I do think he should be gaining more control, and feel we are not really helping him.

Sorry to ramble. Hopefully someone will come along with some insightful advice.

I always thought if a child is tantrumming beyond the age of four it was a sign of mis-handling. Think I read this in Penelope Leach.

I think it's really important not to try and suppress their feelings - but, as with adults, there are appropriate and inappropriate ways of expressing them.

If they feel that their feelings are truly being empathised with and understood, I think that's half the battle - sometimes they just want you to connect with them and make clear you understand why they're upset - rather than using it as a opportunity to tell them they're in the wrong, or standing by and passively watching them go b to meltdown.

Not saying this is what you're doing, just thinking out loud.

I try to encourage DS to verbalise his feelings if possible rather than crying or screaming. If he isn't up to that then he's generally better getting it out of his system on his own in his room (not in a bad "go to your room!" kind of way... or at least not normally... but he'll take himself off to his room, calm down a bit and then come back and say "Mummy, I am very cross with you".

But I don't want that to sound as though we have it 100% sussed, because we don't.

Thanks for your responses.

A lot of the time we can negotiate with ds, and dd2 age 3 more and more, although she seems to be much more chilled out in general. Ds's big tantrums are usually about me not allowing him to have/do something he really wants, or at being put in time out because of something he has done. Once he's in full swing it's impossible to talk to him. He crashes around shouting the worst things he can think of (I hate you etc).

We talk to him a lot about what he could when he gets angry, but in the moment he loses it. He is so bloody minded when he really wants something.

I wondered when 'time out' would be mentioned.

There's a book called 'How to Talk so your Kids will Listen and Listen so your Kids will Talk' which gets recommended frequently on MN, and I found 'Positive Parenting' really helpful when I was getting in to downward spirals with DS1.

There are ways to avoid backing your children in to corners so that they feel the only escape is to scream and shout - it's not easy to start with and their behaviour can actually deteriorate at first as they're testing you to see if things have really changed - but if you perservere your family life will be transformed and you'll hardly believe it's the same child.

Have to go to bed now - I'm not having a go, we all do our best and so many people think it's normal to treat our children as we might have been treated - but much cleverer people than me have thankfully found ways of avoiding this and re-establishing peace and harmony in the family.

We don't really use time out as a punishment, more so that he can calm down. It usually goes something like - ds is fighting with younger sis, escalates despite me intervening etc etc, in the end have to separate them and he goes into rage at being stopped from playing.

I have the How to Talk book and a lot of the time the talking and listening now works.

My MIL is generally very comfortable with expression of anger but even she asked me recently to take dd2 outside when she was raging in a cafe, which told me that most people hate to hear this. I wondered if she meant it just disturbed them or whether they would feel she was being "naughty".

I think that while it's important for children to feel that their emotions are not unacceptable, other people in a public place shouldn't have to put up with extended bouts of shrieking and howling from a furious toddler when they are trying to eat a meal or read a book in peace. There'sa big gap between being expected to suppress all your feelings to the extent of not being able to admit you have them, and being allowed to express them all over other people no matter what.

I'd always take a DC out of somewhere like a cafe if they were tantrumming. Once they were outside I'd probably let them get on with it, but I don't think my child's tantrums should be inflicted on people trying to have a quiet meal or cup of coffee.

what solidgold said.

OK slight tangent.

Another thing I remember from my childhood was being asked questions which were not really questions, e.g. "Was that a nice park?", or "Did you enjoy your cake?", but if my answer was anything but positive there would be offence and sulking from my parents. So now I have taken the view that if you ask, then you want the truth. If I can't cope with my children telling me the cake I made was awful, then I don't ask, and if they like it they tell me spontaneously, which I think is much nicer to hear.

As you can imagine this leads to some interesting scenarios with my parents as my dc are not used to providing the "right" answer the way I was.

I do make them say thankyou for everything, even if they don't like whaever it was. But I won't force them to say they like something if they don't.

i think by school age the parent should have taught them what emotion is socially acceptable in which situation.

i found a sideways glance and a "don't be ridiculous" at a tantrum was very effective

I wanted to make sure that my DCs could express their feelings and now I am in that situation with DS2:

me: "Can you stop making that much noise DS2?"

DS2 : "But MUM (very wingy tone), it hurts my feelings when you tell me off"

What oh what have I started?

But as other poster have said I do not tolerate tantrums. They will be totally ignored if happening at home and very sharply put a end to if "in public". with something like "This stops NOW and we will talk about it later" in a very stern voice. I do sound really unking when I go down that route but it is very effective!

KTNoo we have a policy of asking this type of questions to the DCS only when we know they really enjoyed themselves so they never sound ungrateful and we never feel like failure for not making them happy enough!

Typos! I hope you can still read!

Exactly Gorionine! I remember the first time I heard dh's family saying the restaurant meal they had was terrible. My family could never say that - it was wonderful even if it was disgusting. I wonder why they feel they can't say anything negative? What do they think is going to happen fgs?

I do tell ds to stop ranting in public (would love to be able to stop him with a glance custardo!) but he seems to lose all control. The only option is to take him away/outside. If my parents are there they make ridiculous and panicked threats, like "We are never coming here again if you are going to behave like that" or "I'm going to have to take that pizza away and give it to a nice boy", which I just find pathetic. And the fact is that they would never carry out the threat which makes it even more ridiculous to say it.

I think your point about questions is really interesting.

Sometimes it works best to avoid starting conversations with questions but talk about oneself. I will usually say something like 'Oh this cake is really delicious' and see if they agree or disagree.

I don't ask 'how was school' either? I usually say 'X happened at work today' and then they will say 'X happened at school today' and then I'll ask questions.

It distresses me to see young children (under 7) being told "stop crying" when you feel that the parents are more concerned about the inconvience of having a crying child in a public place than about the childs feelings. (But I agree that a tantrumming child should be taken outside out of courtesy for others).

Yes, I agree about the crying for genuine upset being supressed - it really stresses me out when I see an extremely upset child crying because they've been physically hurt or someone's called them a mean name, and the parents are shushing them.

But that's different from losing control and flying in to a rage over random events as a toddler would - and I don't think it's doing a child any favours to stand by and let it happen.

If children really feel they are being listened to and treated as people whose needs are as feasible as anyone else's, they can cope with small disappointments and upsets in an age-appropriate manner.

Sometimes we can be so concerned about not emulating our parents that we unwittingly go too far in the opposite direction.

Nontoxic, good point about not going too far the other way. My parents did/do a lot of things well - my mum has far more patience than me but she isn't with my dc all day and she only had one child!

I remember being shushed as a child when I was crying. They would do anything to stop the crying if it was in public. I definitely felt like I should NOT be crying and still have a problem showing anger and sadness in front of others.

I want my dc to be able to let the emotion out and not feel bad about doing that. Yesterday at the park with my mum dd2 was crying because I didn't want her to go on the big swings. There was about 5 teenage boys swinging high and I felt it would be dangerous. Tried some talking but she was tired as well and nothing was working. In the end I just sat down on a bench with her on my lap. At first she was struggling against me but then she just sat with me and cried for about 5-10 mins. Then she was completely fine. My mum kept trying to distract/threaten/bribe her but in the end I think the best thing was just to let her cry until she felt better.

That might have been the best thing to do for her - she's three isn't she?
Although I've never restrained an upset toddler on my lap.

I'm sure you know distraction can work - I'd probably offer an ice cream or other non-edible treat - duck-feeding or something she absolutely loves to do as a consolation prize - it wasn't her fault the bigger boys were making it dangerous for her.

Basically too much emphasis on how important it is to express one's feelings can make children grow into nightmare people who are so preoccupied with the validity and importance of their own feelings that they never spare a thought for anyone else's.

Hear hear - again.

All interesting, thanks.

dd2 wasn't listening to anything I said at that point in the park. I can tell when talking is going to work and when not. I wouldn't give an ice cream in that situation. If they get an ice cream it's because I want to give them one, and not because they are screaming etc.

I've been thinking about this more today. I think I was punished/threateded to be punished a lot for being angry/frustrated as a child. When I had my first dc I didn't know how to parent any other way, but gradually I've changed my approach as I just don't think the reward/punishment thing works, and that's aside from the long-term effects.

Today we went to the bookshop as the dc received money for easter from their aunt. ds was getting really frustrated as the book he wanted was way too expensive and actually for a baby anyway (had toys and other gimmicks inside). There were plenty of other books he liked but he's so determined to get his way in these situations that he wanted the baby book on principle and started shouting and stamping etc. My mum was doing the "well I don't think you're going to be getting a book then" but I decided not to punish his frustration and in the end we came to a compromise. It took a while, some ranting and a lot of strangers staring first though. But the other options were to give in and buy the baby book or march him out with nothing (my mum's choice).