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Original poster

Language delay in bilingual child.

88 replies

pinkhousesarebest · 26/03/2009 16:35

My 7 year old d.s is in a french school,and we saw the speech therapist today because he mixes up some sounds. She found that he had a vocabulary that was almost three years behind his peers.He was born in France,but we speak English at home.We are going to have some intensive s.t now,but I was just wondering if we are ever going to catch up,and if this is part of raising a bilingual child. He did talk very late,just before his third birthday. She thought that was significant.

OP posts:
BonsoirAnna · 26/03/2009 16:40

Your post isn't clear. Did the speech therapist assess your DS in English or in French?

BonsoirAnna · 26/03/2009 16:48

You cannot do an accurate assessment of a bilingual child for speech development, and in particular size of vocabulary, using tools developed for monolingual children in only one of a bilingual child's two languages. It is meaningless. There are currently no tools available for accurately assessing speech and language development in bilingual children, but an experienced bilingual SALT can run tests for monolingual children on both a bilingual child's languages and make an educated guess as to whether there is a real problem or just the quite usual slightly smaller than average vocabulary in each language but combined rather larger vocabulary across both languages.

Original poster
pinkhousesarebest · 26/03/2009 17:12

He was assessed in French. His English is fine.

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BonsoirAnna · 26/03/2009 17:16

So French is his non-dominant / minority language?

BonsoirAnna · 26/03/2009 17:17

It is going to be a problem for your DS being educated in French if his French is a lot weaker than his English. That is actually not a good situation at all - you need to work on getting his French better, or his overall cognitive development will be delayed.

Original poster
pinkhousesarebest · 26/03/2009 17:47

The thing is,he is absolutely thriving in school, in the top five, beginning to read his little Bayard books himself, no probs either with maths.I would never have suspected there was a problem if it had not been for the fact that he consistently mixes up the same sounds in reading.I have begun, albeit reluctantly, to read the bedtime story now in French, and have begun to speak to him a little bit more in French as well. Any other tips for bringing on his vocabualary?

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BonsoirAnna · 26/03/2009 17:49

I think with bilingual children that you just have to be prepared to keep a vigilant eye on their development in both languages and be prepared to tweak the amount of exposure they are getting at any time dependent on need.

My DD is 4.4 and we are working big time on English in anticipation of a takeover by French when she is 7 or so.

BonsoirAnna · 26/03/2009 17:50

Is there a French equivalent of "Eye spy with my little eye"? That's a good game for encouraging vocabulary. Also those imagiers books.

cory · 26/03/2009 19:01

So if he was only assessed in his weaker language, I don't see how anyone can know that he has a language delay. (I am language delayed when it comes to German. That is, I don't speak it very well).

Do you have any concerns about his English?

If his English is much better than his French, and if his French is good enough for him to follow the teaching at school, then I can't help wondering if the problem may not lie with the assessment.

Original poster
pinkhousesarebest · 26/03/2009 21:26

Phew. Bedtime story en francais now thankfully over. This tweaking lark is very time consuming Anna. Cory, I agree that it is not a proper language delay. He definitely did have a delay when he was younger in English, and we really worked a lot with him, but he is fine now. I suppose that I would like to think that this disparity between the two languages is normal, and that it will not prejudice him later on. But it is hard to see how it won't as he is at a disadvantage already.

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ZZZen · 26/03/2009 21:30

quite worrying when you hear something like that, isn't it?

I think it is possible that multi-lingual children because they are spreading themselves over the acquisition of more than 1 language generally will not acquire the same richness of vocabulary as a well-read intelligent monolingual dc who is receiving a lot of verbal stimulation.

I don't really see how it would be possible. In my experience (such as it is) there always seems to be one dominant language and I agree with Anna, you are always readjusting exposure to one or the other language when you notice the imbalance.

If his schooling is going to be in French, it is a pity that French is not his dominant language.

Shitemum · 26/03/2009 21:44

Perhaps you could find someone who would speak to him in French, like a babysitter who could walk him home from school or whatever, and boost his one to one input in French. I agree it is hard work. I wonder if children in your DSs position eventually catch up with their peers in terms of vocab etc... and if so at what age...

We live in Spain, speak English at home. I've noticed 5.5 yo DD1s Spanish is still not quite up to her peers' level even after 3.5 years of fulltime nursery but her English is native level except for the odd Spanglish grammatical mistake...
We are moving back to the UK this year so we will have to switch to Spanish at home or OPOL, DP's first language is Spanish.

moondog · 26/03/2009 21:47

'It is meaningless. There are currently no tools available for accurately assessing speech and language development in bilingual children, but an experienced bilingual SALT can run tests for monolingual children on both a bilingual child's languages and make an educated guess as to whether there is a real problem or just the quite usual slightly smaller than average vocabulary in each language but combined rather larger vocabulary across both languages'

That's crap.

'If his schooling is going to be in French, it is a pity that French is not his dominant language.'

So is this

(Trilingual SALT speaking who works with bi-lingual children every day of the week.)

Original poster
pinkhousesarebest · 26/03/2009 22:07

Thanks Shitemum,he does speak loads of French. His godmother lives right next to us, and he either has friends home after school, or goes through the hedge to the neighbours. However, he didn't know the word for foal tonight, for example.

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cat64 · 26/03/2009 22:11

This reply has been deleted

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Original poster
pinkhousesarebest · 26/03/2009 22:13

Oops,that ended abruptly. His schooling is going to be in French,and French will not be his dominant language, as we are not a French speaking household,and are happy with that. But surely that is the case for loads of people. It didn't stop Rachida Dati for instance!

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Original poster
pinkhousesarebest · 26/03/2009 22:18

Any advice moondog?

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Shitemum · 26/03/2009 22:49

By pinkhousesarebest Thu 26-Mar-09 17:47:13

"The thing is,he is absolutely thriving in school, in the top five, beginning to read his little Bayard books himself, no probs either with maths.I would never have suspected there was a problem if it had not been for the fact that he consistently mixes up the same sounds in reading."

If he's happy and you weren't worried and he's doing so well at school then maybe there isn't that much to be worried about?
Maybe it's just a question of time?

moondog · 26/03/2009 22:53

If he's doing well in school ,what's the issue?
People are rarely completely blanced in two languages.One is often dominant. My English is better than my Welsh but am utterly comfortable in both. My half Welsh/French niecesc and nephews all differ. One girl is as near as perfectly bilnigual as I have ever seen, her siblings much more fluent and confident in French.

I personally think SALTs often focus on things that really don't need fixing. With a child that is doing well, a linguistically and educationally rich environment is all that is needed generally.

Shitemum · 27/03/2009 00:47

moondog - that's just what I wanted to say but didn't for fear of offending you or any other SALTS!

moondog · 27/03/2009 08:25

Crikey, you can't offend me.SALTs haven't a monopoly on this. Speak out woman!

Original poster
pinkhousesarebest · 27/03/2009 08:48

Thanks. He is now in for some pretty intensive SALTing,and she is going to give me exercises to work on at home with him. He is naturally underwhelmed by this, especially as it coincides with Raven on CBBC after school. Is it necessary do you think Moondog?

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BonsoirAnna · 27/03/2009 08:55

moondog - do you ever stop to think that your experience of bilingual children is within a bilingual community and that the issues that bilingual children and families face within bilingual communities (Wales, parts of Canada etc) are not the same as the issues faced by bilingual families/children living in monolingual communities?

What I say is not crap. I have a lot of experience.

BonsoirAnna · 27/03/2009 09:03

pinkhousesarebest - surely Rachida Data grew up in France and was only speaking Arabic at home? So French, the language in which she was educated, was the dominant language both of her schooling and her community?

I know plenty of North Africans here in France who have grown up in that language configuration where French is their dominant language and they are unable to speak Arabic (or Kabyl or Berber or whatever) to their own children and pass on their "mother-tongue".

What is your ambition for your DS - that he should be a fully functioning adult in both English and French?

Nighbynight · 27/03/2009 09:25

I tend to agree with Anna. Our experience of living in a bilingual French/German community was, that bilingual issues were far better handled than in the monolingual German school and community where my children are now.

It does take a lot of extra work to keep your children's language skills to the same level as the monolinguals.
pinkhouses - more tv, more after-school activities in french-speaking environment?
these things have helped us.