Don't know whether to post on sleep, breastfeeding, allergies or weaning - it's a big mess! (Long post, sorry)

[WibblyPigRocks]

I've gone for 'parenting' because I don't know where to start or what to do first - I have posted about some of this stuff and people have been so nice and helpful, but the probs are ongoing.

DS is 9mo and still BF. I wanted to stop BFing at 6mo, but I left introducing a bottle too late and he never took to one and he had a suspected dairy allergy (more about that in a mo) so I accepted the fact that I would need to BF a bit longer than I wanted to for the good of my DS.

But 3 months on and I don't feel any closer to weaning him off BF - he won't take more than about 10ml from any cup (God, I've tried hundreds) and although the allergist has given us the ok with dairy products he doesn't seem to like yoghurt (although he did when I was trying things to gauge possible allergic reactions a few months ago, before the appointment with the allergist) or anything creamy. How can I possibly wean him when I can't replace the BF nutritionally?

Also, there's the sleep issue. I feed him to sleep for every nap at home (although he will fall asleep on me when out, or in the buggy/car seat) and have failed miserably to stop doing this. He goes to sleep very happily on his own at the start of the night, but when he wakes up during the night (anything from once to five times between 7 and 7) it's very rare that DH can get him back to sleep, although he really tries. DS just wants feeding - but not for more than about a minute - he hardly takes any milk at night. Last night I actually went out on my own and when I came home, DS had been awake for an hour and a half, mostly crying, and DH had been trying desperately to get him back to sleep. The moment I walked in, he smiled - even giggled a bit - and once I fed him for a few minutes, went happily back to sleep. DH was willing to take over nightwakings in order to night wean him but how can any of us go through that?

I am so desperate to stop BFing in the next month - and I really, really don't want to BF beyond a year. I have no problem with extended BFing - it's just not for me.

Sorry this has been such a long post, but if anyone has any tips on any of these problems, please let me know. I don't even know where to start - naps? Food? Cups? Night wakings?

Hmmm,lots of questions - not sure I can answer them all, but here are a few random thoughts!

Firstly, about the night waking - if he feeds for less than a minute, he really is not "hungry" and is doing it just for the comfort and out of habit IMO. But going from a nice BF to being put back to bed by DH might be too much of a jump to do in one go, so you could try giving him a little snuggle but NO milk, and then back to bed. He will probably protest and have trouble going back to sleep at first, but if you are determined then sooner or later he will get back to sleep without milk, and the more times he does this, the better he'll get at it. If he will take a dummy, that might also help (it worked for us). Then from there hopefully you can gradually move to less wakeups, less intervening when he does wake, and getting DH to take over sometimes.

Also, if he is waking that often, it sounds like you might be reacting to him as soon as he wakes, even if he might not need you to. Eventually, he shouldn't need you to "get him" back to sleep, but should be able to learn to go back over on his own most of the time. But if you jump up as soon as he stirs, he won't have a chance to try that. If so, you could try not going to him unless he is properly crying, and ignoring it if he is just stirring/muttering a bit, so that he has the chance to roll over and go back to sleep on his own. You don't say where he is sleeping at the moment, but this is probably a lot easier to do if he is in his own room so he doesn't disturb you every time he stirs!

The "toddler taming" book has some good stuff on this in the sleep chapter, I was just looking at it earlier...

Thanks MNIIM - I've got a copy of toddler taming, so I'll take a look at that.

He's been sleeping in his own room now and has been since he was 6mo. Sadly, along with bottle, he's never taken a dummy so that option is out.

Without a doubt, he is feeding just for comfort - I am 100% certain of this - but maybe being settled by DH is too much of a change.

Thanks again.

Does anyone else have any thoughts? Particularly related to which issue I should deal with first.

I would start with the sleep issue as everything else is easier to work out when you are not so exhausted. If you know he is not hungry then I would perhaps let your DH settle him during the night. I tried this for about a week when I was sure my DS wasn't hungry and knew that we had just got into a routine of feed and back to sleep. It was hard but I didn't go in at night at all. I must admit though my Ds wasn't particularly upset by it and don't know how I would have managed if he was as I wouldn't have coped with him being too upset. Myname.. gives some good advice on the not going in too soon side of things. I was guilty of tgis and it does make a difference. Good luck.

On the milk issue, when my DD went off milk for a bit I supplemented her diet by cooking food that was stuffed with dairy products - so fish pie or cottage pie with loads of cheese and butter in the mash, caulifower and brocolli cheese, chicken pie with a creamy sauce, pancakes with cheese sauce, lasagne, home made ice cream etc. It made me feel better if nothing else!

No advice on the sleep I am afraid, but lots of MNers have had the issues you describe so I am sure someone will be able to help.

DD was very much as you describe.
She did have a dairy allergy outgrown at about 18mo.
She never had a bottle
And she was waking for a night bf for over a year.
I was more OK with bf long term than you are but didn't enjoy expressing when I got back to work or night feeds.

Night feeds- in the end (when she was >1) we just decided that dh would go (he offered water in a cup) and I would not go between 11pm to 5am however bad it was. (I had to do breakfast to give him a lie in). She did protest a lot but only for a few nights. However she still woke just for the cuddle for weeks after that and we had to sort of gradually withdraw from rocking to back stroking in the cot. It took about 2 months for her to regularly sleep through. If you want it faster than that and can bear it controlled crying will be quicker.

Naps- some people say to sort naps 1st but it never seemed worth it to me to spend ages for only 45mins sleep. I would start with the nights but you can do the same with naps either substitute the bf for something else you know works eg walking in the buggy and then gradually reduce this or go down CC route.

Milk- If you are going to stop bf you do need to replace the dairy somehow for calcium and for energy. DD never had a bottle but would drink from a Tommy Tippee cup. We just gave it her with water in at mealtimes and let her play around with it at first so she got used to it. You could do this and carry on offering yoghurt and dairy stuff whilst you sort the night sleep issue.

Is there any reason you are so dead set on stopping breastfeeding?
It is good for you and your DD health wise, esp if allergie are a concern, and is a great way to help her settle, which she will learn to do herself in time.
YOu might find when it comes to a year that it is all very different anyway, 3 months is a long time in a baby's life.

When I had DS1 I only intended to feed him for 6 months as I thought that was what you did, I didn't fully inderstand that babies needed milk as well as solids then, but I fed him till he was 2 and he is a great sleeper and very indepedent.

COudl you try and go with the flow a bit more, take the pressure off yourself and your DD?
Lots of babies wake in the night and want to suckle for comfort, it is quite normal and healthy...

Agree with Pannacotta. Collectively, we are all far too eager to jump on normal behaviour as a "problem" which much be solved.

Your DS is still so little - is it so bad that he wants the reassurance of having his mummy around when he wakes up in the night?

I also wouldn't do controlled crying by the way: I think you can safely ignore a screaming/tantrumming toddler but who knows what goes through a baby's mind when it cries for it's mummy to come and no-one does... just my personal opinion of course

Sorry meant your DS not your DD...

wibblypig - hi again. I think if you really want to stop bf and get him sleeping through then you will need quite a strict routine and these arent for everyone so if you dont then you need to have a think about what pannacotta has said.

I dont think you need to do cc by the way at that age - I think we have discussed this before. You will need to be very consistant though - ie decide what you are going to do - if dh is going to go in and settle and then do it for at least a week though I dont think it will take that long.

Is he cleared to have formula then? but the only problem is that he wont take a cup or bottle? Am sure you can get a good 3-4ozs down him in porridge at breakfast and then have yoghurt and another milky/cheesy meal - like cauli cheese at dinner.

You dont say how the solids are going btw - how is his eating?

I think the problem though is that if you feel desperate to stop then you shouldn't feel bad about stopping. I know the allergies will be adding to your guilt but you have done amazingly well to BF until 9 months and if you feel more than ready to stop then you should do what you feel is best. I Bf well over a year, but it isn't for everyone and if you really are desperate to stop then you should follow your feelings and I although I mostly agree with tryharder and panacotta, only you know how much of a problem these issues are to you and you should do whatever you need to, to feel happy and for your baby to feel happy.

Sometimes a slight change or improvement in one of the areas will help you to feel better about the other things and you will find a style of parenting that suits you.

Hopefully somebody else will come along to offer more advice for you.

Thanks everyone - I will consider what you have all said.

I appreciate that he is displaying normal behaviour - but just because it's normal, and thus not a problem for him, this doesn't mean it's not a problem for me. My main priority is, of course, his health and happiness, but I'm afraid mine comes a very close second and if there's a way I can marry the two, then that's what I'll do. It's not bad that he wants me - that's natural, wonderful and reassuring - bit it would be nicer if I could settle him without BFing.

Although I described sleep as an issue, that was perhaps a bit of a generalisation - it was very bad a month or so ago (much improved thanks to people like giantkatestacks!) - now I feel we are all generally getting a reasonable amount of sleep and that's good - but I don't like the fact that both I and DS rely so heavily on BFing to instigate sleep as I want to have other options as I move towards giving up BFing.

Giantkatestacks - hi again! Solids are going ok - DS has been given the ok with formula now (allergist we saw was actually fab and very helpful) and other dairy but DS doesn't seem to want any of it. When I was just trying a few things to see if he got a rash, he seemed to really like them so I'm hoping he's just being a bit fussy.

Thanks again for all comments. Does anyone have any experience of NCSS?

hi wibblypigs, i've got no actual experience of the sleep probs you describe (have a non-sleeping toddler, but didn't bf) but did see a post a few months back in sleep offering what seemed like a really good no cry sleep solution - will have a look to try and find it for you.

dd had a dairy allergy and was on special formula. i thought weaning would be a nightmare, but she liked the organix fruit pots (with or without cereal) and the rest i did BLW. she is now 18 months and whilst a bit fussier than other toddlers does actually have a fair range of foods, particularly fruits that she likes, have you considered this? DD grew out of her dairy allergy just after 14 months, she also didn't like yoghurts (and only now likes them occasionally) but LOVES cheese, although this took a while for her to get to grips with. someone told me once that a child has to try a new food for up to 13 tmes before they decide whether they like it or not....depending on the food of course, i think cake was one attempt....

will look for that link now, hth

can't find the exact post, but have googled and found this which is the exact same text i was lloking at. It might not be to your taste (for want of a better word) but to me it looked like an ideal way to teach your baby to self settle in a calm and gradual way, although it does say that your baby will complain a lot for the first couple of nights, and that it would be best tried on older babies (though he doesnt define older!)

hope it helps you

Poor poor you!

I worried so much about how difficult it would be to stop BFing, particularly because DS was a very LONG feeder and I could only ever settle him that way. I was also like you and really wanted to stop when he was 6mo so totally understand the desire for it all to end! DS pulled the plug himself at 11mo however (biting and laughing was much more entertaining). Just because your DS isn't ready to stop now, doesn't mean you're going to be BFing until he's school age.

It sounds to me like you're being very hard on yourself (which is understandable when you're sleep deprived and you want your boobs back!).

i think it's important to decide on a plan and stick to it. the waking is a habit - and yes, some people feel that if baby is waking and needs comfort, then it's wrong to deny him. i feel that babies need 12 hours of unbroken sleep - they just need to learn how to do it.

we did cc - but although it seems like AGES they are crying, we carefully timed it and literally, 3-5 minutes was the limit before DD rolled over and back to sleep. this is when we cut out 11pm BF. she had started doing some crazy 3am, then 5am etc wakings around 6 months - we just knocked it on the head.

3-4 days of letting her have a little cry and not going in to her at all, and then she slept through 7-7. 90% of the time, she still does (at 12 months). You do have to psych yourself up for it though, and be consistent. And obviously - you know your baby's cries. If he is just whinging and he's not cold/hungry/wet etc, then he's not going to come to any grave harm if you let him 'cry himself back to sleep' for a couple of days.

DD gave up BF on her own just last week a few days before 1st b'day. she doesn't take milk from sippy cup especially - a little bit, but i have to be quite persistent. she gets milk in cereal/cooking/cheese/yoghurt. i am going to talk to health nurse tomorrow about how to get more milk into her now i'm not BF. good luck!