Help needed in teaching my 6 year old German rather belatedly

[Natascha123]

I'm a german mother living in the UK with a 6 year old daughter, 4 months old son and english speaking husband. For various reasons I never spoke german to my daughter and hence she now just speaks english, which I have recently started to regret.

Now that our son has been born I see my last chance to rectify this mistake. I have spoken german to him from day 1 and intend to continue this.

Here is my question: I would like to teach my daughter german, but am unsure how to go about this. As she is at school most of the day, I doubt that she will just 'pick it up'by hearing me speak german to her brother. However, as her grasp of german is virtually nonexistent at the moment, I can't just suddenly start speaking german to her.

Should I maybe use a foreign language programme? (Any recommendations?) Should I speak in german and then translate what I say?

If anyone has any ideas or advice I would be really grateful. Moondog if you read this, I'd particularly value your advice from a SALT/bilingual parent perspective.

Hi there, you could start with just labelling a few things around the house for her to see the words -table, chair, door, etc... simple stuff. Next you could try only speaking to her in German say when you are in her bedroom or pick a room what ever you like - tell her that that is what you are going to do and see how that goes.....

How sad.
I have known other families get themselves in such situations.
Its highly unlikely your dd will ever speak German with you in a natural unforced fashion, even if she does learn to speak it.

If you speak it consistently with yuor ds she should pick at least some of it up but you will probably always speak differnet languages to them.

Oh, that is a shame.... but even if your dd won't ever speak German 'like a native', hopefully she can learn some German from you and your family.

Where are you based? Is there a German Saturday School near you? Can you get German TV (via satellite)? Do you have any German friends with similar aged children nearby?

Thank you for your thoughts. I guess I realise she won't ever be fluent.

I'm a bit concerned about the family dynamics of speaking different languages to my children. I was even wondering whether I should just speak English to my son to treat them equally.

My main concern is that my daughter won't feel left out when I speak German to her brother. So what I was hoping is that she can at least learn enough to follow our conversations. I'm also wondering what effect her speaking English (or eventually poor German) is going to have on my son? I assume that the younger sibling uses the older one as a role model.

There is a German Saturday school near us and my daughter has a German friend in her class. However, the Sat school only accepts children who are already fluent in German.

I like the idea of the German TV and also think I will start having 'German Sundays" where we just speak German at home. I suppose she'll just have to learn the language as she would another foreign language.

Moondog, just out of interest - how did the other families you knew in this situation deal with it?

They sploke different languages to different kids and had a different dynamic.
Highly unlikely your dd will agree to switching to German with you a day a week but if yuo have the tenacity to speak in German with her, her receptive understanding will develop and she may be confident enough to speak it with new people if she commences a relationship in German with them from the start.

Nigh impossible to code switch with someone once yuo start speaking one language with them, with all but the most tenacious of people (I've done it with some adult learners of Welsh.)

Sorry Natascha - slight hijack for Moondog: we'll be sending our DCs to a Gaelic Medium school, even though we have NO background in Gaelic. DD (4, the eldest) is currently at nursery and is beginning to pick up a few Gaelic words/phrases. DH and I are taking a week long course in the summer which I'm hoping will give us a good grounding before DD starts school.

From what you've said here, is it going to be a bit futile speaking as much Gaelic as poss at home? Do you think DD will be reluctant to join in as it will be too forced/artificial? I think DD should (from what I've heard) become pretty much fluent after a term or two of full-time school. I'm just curious to hear more about other people's experiences really as I;m fairly new to it all!

It all depends on what you mean by a speaking in a natural unforced manner. I was taught English from Ladybird books by my Swedish mother, starting from the age of 6, and gradually moving on to more sophisticated literature, then to real people. I would certainly say I am fluent and most people don't spot the accent, it really is very slight. I dream in English, I write poetry in English, I conduct the whole of my working day in English, I speak to my children in both languages without feeling hampered in either. But I was 29 before I actually moved to England. It had come to feel like my native language long before then because so much of my reading and thinking was in English and I took every opportunity to hear the language.

My brother who started learning German at the same age is now very fluent in German.

Now we were probably unusually driven and not every child is going to be the same. But I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a relatively high level of competency. Agree with Moondog, though, that one German day a week doesn't seem like enough. You need daily or almost daily reinforcement.

I haven't got much experience of starting to speak a new language, as we never really spoke English at home. One good thing my parents did though was to get in a young English au pair over the summer just to tutor us. We are still in touch, she's a lovely lady, and it did a lot for our English.

With my own children, I have spoken both languages from the start, so they've never known any different. But I am going to start teaching dd more French now- school seems to be progressing too slowly- so we'll see how that goes.

I can think of a few things I would probably do in your case:

Have a special fun activity that is only for you and your dd and that gradually introduces more German. Something little babies can't do, something that is just her own.

Once her reading in English is established, introduce her to reading German (shouldn't be too difficult).

DVDs are good and easy to get hold of these days, but they reinforce, they don't actually give you that much active competence.

Once she has some German, try your hardest to get her into contact with German speakers her own age, whether in RL or over the internet. Nothing will get you into a language as quickly as being desperate to communicate with a native speaker.

Hi, I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if I'm duplicating things. I'm sorry you've got yourself into a tricky situation, but wanted to encourage you to persevere in trying to change it - I'm sure that if you stick with it you can achieve a lot, even if your DD never speaks native-level German with you.

Surely the most important thing is that she acquires familiarity and passive competence quickly, so that you can speak to both children in the same language and she doesn't feel excluded. Can you explain your regret to her in a sensitive way and somehow put across the idea that she and her brother can now learn German together (rather than it being something that you are doing with him and "failed" to do with her)?

Do you have any friends or family in Germany who you could try to keep in regular contact with, even if you don't know many German speakers locally? What about German translations/versions of films and stories she is already familiar with/fond of? Can you access German radio online and have it on in the background to increase her exposure? There are some great German audiobooks for children which you could use in a similar way. I wouldn't worry too much about her active use of German initially.

Would you even consider spending a term in Germany and sending your DD to school there? I know it's a radical approach, but if you could do it I imagine it would sort the problem out pretty quickly.

Can I ask whether your DH speaks German? That will make a difference to the overall dynamics, of course. If he doesn't perhaps it could be a joint project for them. She might feel less at a disadvantage if she saw that he was in the same position, and he would feel less excluded from your conversations with the children.

Plenty of people have no experience of another language until much later childhood and still go on to achieve native or near-native competence. And plenty of children who are exposed to a second language from birth don't use it much (or even at all) unless they are in a situation where they know they need to. (With grandparents who have no knowledge of the child's "dominant" language, for example.)

Sorry this turned out so long. Good luck, anyway

Six is still quite young - I don't think it's too late if you tackle the problem right now

quick suggestion - agree with annasmammi - try and find some other German speaking families or organisations in your area and then just let your child play with her peers (in German only)

or travel to Germany every holiday without fail and find her some playmates of her own age

it's the very best way to learn

Thank you everyone. Moondog, I appreciate you being so honest. I guess it's best to be realistic. Cory, what an interesting and heartening story! And thanks to Counting the grey hairs and BFQi. I will definetly use some of your ideas.

Realistically, I'm really aiming for my daughter to have enough receptive comprehension so as not to feel left out when I speak German.
I know it won't be easy, but where there's a will...

She will probably understand a lot more than she speaks so she shouldn't feel too left out if you start ASAP and keep at it with as much additional exposure as possible. Comprehension comes much quicker than spoken fluency. Even if she will never speak German like a native and speak it naturally with you then she should at least be able to understand 99% of what you say. I wouldn't suggest switching entirely to German, although you could just suddenly start speaking German to her and in about a month she'd understand quite a lot! As a governess I've taught children English from scratch, sometimes where I don't speak the language, sometimes where I speak a little and recently where I speak their language fluently. The total immersion method is frustrating for the first month but it gets quick results. I doubt you want that with your DD especially as she's just had a new brother. Therefore I recommend my second method which is doubling up the languages. It basically means (at first) saying everything twice - first in the target language and then providing a translation. Don't expect her to speak to you in German but when you ask a question try to provide the answer in German. Eventually you can cut out the translation of your question and she should soon be able to pick up the gist of it. She will soon be able to understand, especially if you leave a short amount of time for her to think about the German before you give her the English.

Example with French (I don't speak German!):
"Do you want some peas? [pause] Tu veux des petits pois?"
"Oui, s'il te plait"
"Yes, you would. Okay, here you go"

Also a reward scheme will help get her speaking - if she makes the effort to ask you something in German then give her a sticker or a marble to put towards a reward, even if it's not perfectly correct. You can paraphrase the correct German when you acknowledge what she's said:

"Me want some more juice."
"You want some more juice? [acknowledging what she wants] Okay. I want some more juice too [modelling correct structure]."

I guess the other stunningly obvious thing is if she speaks in German you respond in German and try to encourage her to speak to her brother in German too.

Sobranie,it's unrealistic to expect you to speak Gaelic with your children which would be a huge change (althoguh I know an American father who has switched to Welsh with his kids and got on fine-they are exceptional though.)

Best thing to do is foster an attitude of admiration and respect.
I think however you can do a lot by reading and playing games with your kids in Gaelic. By doing so you are in effect repeating somethnig produced by someone else which seems to make it ok.

I read a lot to my kids in English (even thoguh I never speak it to them) and play lotto/worc/computer games in it with them.

One can then discuss the issues in a meta linguistic sense.

My dd loves asking me how to say things in English (or Welsh) and we discuss (simple) issues of grammar or spelling so she still gets plenty of feedback and info. in English from me,even thoguh we never actually speak it.

I would not say that it is too late.

My DC were brought up speaking German and English (I am Scottish, DH German) in Germany. They are both reasonably fluent in both languages with German being their stronger language.

5 months ago we moved to Geneva so they are now learning French as a third language. They go to a local Swiss school so have picked up an amazing amount of French in a short time. Obviously this is a different situation as they are in a French speaking environment.

The window of language learning closes at around 7 - 8 year old, which means that learning a second language becomes more difficult after this age, and it becomes more unlikely that the child will reach native speaker ability.

My DD is 6yo too. DS is 4yo.

I would echo what others have said. Try and speak as often as possible in German. I liked the idea of a special activity in German. CDs are particularly good, the Rolf Zuckowski ones are great, the DC like them as they are funny.

KiKa is good too, if you can get satellite TV stations.

Do you go home to Germany often? That has helped us get the DC speaking English, knowing that if they want to play with their cousins then they have to speak English.

Would your DD be interested in a pen pal? DD is just starting to write now but is very keen and I am looking for ways to help her reading and writing in German.

I don't see the issue as being whether or not OP's child will learn German, Lindt. No reason at all why she can't do this. I understand it as being whether she will speak it in a natuaral spontaneous fashion with her mother.

WRT to speaking English to your son so that they're treated equally, a family experience (though not quite the same):

My Aunt is German and intended on bringing up her children to be bilingual. When her eldest son was born deaf she dropped this plan and didn't speak German with her younger child either as she felt it would be unfair.

She regrets this now. My younger cousin did pick up some German at school but never developed an interest in the language. Ironically, my elder cousin is now bilingual with Sign as his first language!

I think your dd will benefit from hearing another language around the house, even if she doesn't become completely fluent. Do you still have family in Germany? It will be valuable for both your children to have German to access that part of their heritage.

Ironic indeed with older one Shona.
I konw of Welsh (older)Deaf people who were forced into English medium oral education and as a result neither speak Welsh (language of community) or are able to use sign language properly.

Would she be interested in helping her little brother?

Could you ask her to help teach him his colours/shapes with you and just say the German words slowly for him, not commenting on her efforts. She may just make that extra effort to be bigger/better than her brother;

Could you have a German friend over who doesn't speak English and get her to translate for her Nana, or whoever?

but despite all the possible 'tricks' I would say the best thing is to just start speaking german yourself. Just start saying 'i'm laying the table, where are the spoons?' etc to yourself, singing songs, making a German routine for breakfast time and getting out to school, and never let on it's for her benefit?

Natascha, dd1 speaks french and german like a native, I mean you cant tell she is not french or german. She was 6 when we went to france, and 9 when she came to germany.

My children learned a lot from tv. I would stop english tv, and only have german tv / dvds. Bob the builder will teach your dd german!

I speak a little German to my 5 year old (I'm not German but I lived there). Your daughter will pick up a little German from when you speak to your son, so when you start saying simple things to her e.g. ich liebe dich, gute nacht etc then he may well start repeating it. That's how I did with my son - just simple phrases.
Little steps.
David

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