Friend's ds is being foul to my ds. Should I say something?

[knickerler]

It used to be very cosy - our children were friends and we were friends. We'd meet up a lot at weekends, even went on holiday together. But for most of this year her ds has been putting my ds down and making him feel small. They are both 9. Her ds is very fast, quick, charismatic character. He is the alpha male of the classroom in a small in-crowd. IMO he controls others by making them feel small and plays other kids off against each other - nice one day, nasty the next. My child is not the only one to have issues with this group.
I've tried telling my son not to run after them or seek their approval, to pretend he doesn't care so they can't get their kicks by getting a reaction. In one sense I think this is part of life - there will be people like this in every school or workplace and we all have to learn how to deal with it.
My son doesn't want me to say anything to the teacher, so I haven't. It's not bullying, though there is a certain amount of pushing. prodding and physical stuff, mostly its just relentless bitchiness.
But i'm finding it quite difficult with my friend who i like a lot. Several times she's asked us to do things out of school but my son doesn't want to do things with her son, so I'm constantly saying we're 'busy'. (btw I don't usually let my ds dictate our social life, but in this case I think he has a valid point). We do sometimes meet for a drink, without our children.
My friend sees her son as sensitive and emotionally volatile - seems to have no idea he is pretty much the class bully. Tho she has mentioned remarks made by other people, so she must know on some deep unconscious level.
What what you do? Would you say something?
And if so, what?
I'm getting quite upset by it.

I think that, if she is your friend, you need to say something about why you're not meeting up with the children - otherwise your friendship will not last. Its a difficult position to be in.

knickerler I understand a little about this. My dd is 5 and her former "best friend" (who thankfully is in a school year above her) behaves a bit like this.

The friend is quite a sly child, always has been. As babies/toddlers she was always the one pinching/biting. Obviously this is normal at that stage, but when a child is almost 6 and greets a younger child with a sneaky shove/smack (if she thinks no adults are watching) clearly this is unacceptable.

There have been incidents at school (e.g. a big scratch on dd's neck) which we let the school deal with. Last week the child snatched dd's fruit and binned it at break. Also she regularly excludes her from games and blows hot and cold as to whether dd is "in" or not.

dd really struggles with the mixed messages and the fact that the friend is nice as pie one day and aggressive the next. I'm afraid I took the coward's way out in a way, kind of forgot to reply to messages about playdates etc.

I know from past experience that the mother (who I was close with, we also went on holiday together and spent weekend time together) doesn't accept that there are any difficulties with her dd. On the odd occasion it has been mentioned in passing my dd is accused of "telling tales". Well if crying because your head has been pushed against a wall is telling tales then I am afraid I am not putting her in that position.

Sorry, no real advice. We have tried to cultivate more "friendly" friendships for dd.

Incidentally I no longer have a friendship with the mother, which I am upset about. There were other issues but the main one was her dd's behaviour (or really her reluctance to deal with it, and to dismiss my feelings and that of my dd)

Thanks cremeegg. Your situation sounds very similar. I have a very strong instinct that my friend doesn't want to know or accept there is any problem. And anyway - from her perspective she might think it is my son who is the problem. I think I might just say they have 'fallen out' rather than apportioning blame. I'm finding it very ticklish though

No. Ds adamant he doesn't want me to speak to anyone. He's of an age where they get stick for 'snitching' and being weak if they tell. He's determined to deal with it himself - he's confiding in me so I have to respect his wishes - but at the same time he's fairly miserable about it.
What is driving me nuts is where to draw the line. He's not being beaten up. He's being excluded and belittled by a group of kids who used to be his friends. I guess that's one of life's tough lessons - and I have to support him and tell him it's their loss not his.

I suppose I'm upset because I know this family and we have been close. Now I feel quite distant because I feel so angry. And I feel uncomfortable about feeling so enraged with their son. He's a child too.

It's a playground squabble. I shouldn't feel so angry, right?

It is a very difficult situation. As you say, their son is "a child too".

I feel really horrid when I describe another person's dc as "sly" which I did in my earlier post.

I guess the bottom line is (and was in my case) that you are fairly sure that the mother wouldn't be receptive to your concerns, even if you did decide to bring this up with her.

On a more extreme level (re parents who can't bear to hear anything negative about their dc) a year 2 child tried to strangle a smaller child at dd's school recently. Staff were put in a position where the child (as a last resort) was restrained for his own safety and that of his victim. The mother was enraged by this. After the event she was apparently screaming abuse at staff as her child couldn't possibly have done that.

Are the boys like that if it's just the two of them? Could you maybe try one more play and go somewhere where you can keep a close eye. If the other boy is nasty then you can easily start a conversation with your friend. If they just ignore one another, you can easily say well they do seem to be drifting apart/ can't make them be friends, etc. Might be worth one last try? Might help the situation at school too even.