Sleep! - How the heck do you get them to do it?!

[UmSami]

My DS is 3 years old this month and still has major sleep issues...he's been in his own room for about 2 months.
To go to sleep he demands to hold my neck and play with my mole...everything has to be just so and it can take 2 hours of me lying with him to settle him.

My DD is 4 months old, and has had terrible evening colic since birth...it is settling now, thankfully, but obviously she still needs putting to sleep...she has up until recently been rocked to sleep, but now she is looking to bf to sleep.
I've tried getting her to sleep before DS but it just hasn't worked...there have been many nights where is has been me DS and DD (bf'ing) all squeezed into a toddler bed...

Oh and to add insult to injury, once I get DS to sleep he tends to be up again after an hour trying to work his way into my bed. Then he's in and out of bed every 10 - 30 mins until my DD wakes up at 2am for a feed, I give up in exhaustion and we all end up in my bed.

I really need advice on getting them both to sleep with minimal tears and tantrums, I feel I'm failing DD as she cries much more than I think she should have to...I'm starting to get increasingly angry with DS and temper is getting short...he's never slept well, I didnt realise how badly til I had DD, then I feel guilty for not being mor epatient with him...the transition from only to eldest child can't be easy...I don't want him to resent DD... but I do want him to sleep and I dont want to neglect DD

Your have a tough time by the sounds of it. Your being hard on yourself though. Do you manage to spend much time with DS without DD there?

Have you tried control crying? Theres a book called "toddler taming" that was recommended to me and we have found it really useful.

Also sleep deprivation is a nightmare and makes things seem so much worse. Try and get a plan together, then get some rest if possible babysitters etc before you try anything. You will need alot of resolve and determination for it to work.

Good luck.

UmSami - baby steps approach is the way to go! We are going through trying to get DS to sleep all night in his own cot - one week in, he is spending most of the night there.

I started by getting him to go to sleep in his own bed at bedtime by establishing a routine - he would love to hold your ears all night - which is not too comfy for me! So I now sit in the chair in his room reading my book, some days he is asleep in 5 mins, some times it is 30 mins, but never much longer.

We then progressed to settling him when he woke in the night - by the same method - it is working well at the moment. You do have to have strong resolve and stick to your plan even when they are fighting it, else you will be back to stage 1.

Good luck!!

Thanks cupcake I hate this time of day (it's 11.30 here, i'm 3 hours ahead)

I wish I got more time alone with DS...I know he wants it and so do I...we had a fabulous relationship til about a week ago but at the mo, and for the first time in his life, he seems plain evil (yet gorgeous...I feel so bad saying that about my PFB)

Bought toddler taming just before the move here but DH stupidly put it into storage...not sold here.

I think the fact that I havent had a night off in the last 3 years is taking it's toll...ds has point blank refused to sleep with anyone but me, (though he does sleep at nursery now)...it was fine when it was just him...but now it's just not doable.

DH is always stuck at the office, but when he's here he tries...last night he offered ds the option of getting in bed with him to 'wait' for mummy to get pj's on (dh in spare room as he NEEDS sleep)que 3 hours of screaming and refusals, we resolved not to let his tantrums work, but man was it hard...then the baby woke up!

Hey the baby just woke up!

One hour and 1 resettle later...you get the idea! LOL

Thanks andy...I really have taken baby steps with DS...he was BF till 2 1/4, I needed resolve to stop that...took me ages to get him from my bed to cot to seperate room, it just seems we've taken a backwards step, and with 2 I just dont seem to be managing well...guess you're right I need firmer resolve...I have to be tough with him, but its just such a critical time with new sib...I dont want him to blame her, feel pushed out

UmSami - they are very crafty these toddlers arent they! You cant cut yourself in two, and settle both, but does your OH help at all? I cant see any mention? My DH is next to useless, and leaves it all to me, which is great.. not! He then complains about DS's poor sleeping. but uses work as a reason why he cant help - yes, but I work too!!

Maybe you need to spend more time with DD and almost ignore DS, as he should be old enough to understand, but I guess he is feeling the effect of having a baby sister spoiling his relationship with you.

I have no real words of advise, but sympathise with you, and feel free to rant on here! Hopefully someone who has been in that situation will come along with some wise advice!

I would put dd in a bouncer/cot whereever in the next room or with dh if he's around. Buy some fab bedtime stories to read him, 3a night? Tell him after the last story it's bedtime, shut the door and go and tend to dd. Chances are the first few nights will be awful but then hopefully the stories will replace the neck holding and he will get himself to sleep. Oh and open the door when you go to bed and he's fast asleep.

I had exactly the same problem with ds when dd was born. Now she's nearly 1they have a story together then it's sleep time.

i would buy the book healthy child, healthy sleep habits it's so fab, both for newborn from 4months and also for a toddler. we used it on our colicky son at 5 months, when moving him to his own bed, and he has been mostly a fab sleeper since then. (we had to sleep train one more time after a holiday, but that's been it in 1.5 years!) you'll feel like a bastard but the honest truth is your kids need their sleep and deserve a well rested mum. An idea of the type of things the books uses for toddlers- sleep charts with rewards, darkened rooms, locking the door, alarm clocks etc. with our son aged 5 months it took 2days till he slept through the night- 11pm-7am, and then again at 1.2 years it took 3 days, 7am to 7pm.

Mmm, locking the door?

Sympathies, my dd is 22mo and has never slept through the night. We finally have her at least starting the night in her own bed, which unfortunately, is next to our bed! Next step is to move it into her own room, and I wish I could say I had a plan for achieving that, but I don't!

like i said, sounds awful, but every kid who has done it is well adjusted and happy, so clearly not too damaging. my copy has been loaned out so many times it's falling apart, and one friend sent me flowers a week after she'd borrowed it, when her four year old and 1 year old finally went to sleep by themselves!

Yes I have it, but I just can't do it. I have every book on sleep ever written, and none of them have convinced me that letting my dd cry is the way forward.

What can I say? I'm a wimp.

Our situation is quite similar. Ds is 3 and dd is 7 months. I have to sit holding ds' hand while he goes to sleep. I usually bf dd at the same time who sometimes falls asleep and sometimes doesn't). Thankfully he doesn't take too long to get to sleep (touch wood!), and if he does mess around I explain that I have things to do and will have to go downstairs if he doesn't go to sleep. Then I leave and potter around downstairs for a while. Once I was waiting for him to start crying but he didn't, and when I checked him he was asleep!

Just a thought - maybe it takes him a long ime to settle because he's not tired? How long does he sleep for at nursery? Ds no longer has a sleep in the day. Even a 20 minute nap makes a difference in terms of getting him to bed at night. Maybe he needs a nap because he's up and down all night, if he didn't have one perhaps he'd sleep better at night and then not be tired in the day?

My ds also wouldn't be settled by anyone else until recently, but now he'll fall asleep with dh. i don't know what brought the change, and sometimes he'll still come down after reading the stories saying 'he wants you'.

We don't mind ds coming into our bed during the night and don't bother taking him back. Some nights he comes in at 11pm, sometimes 3ish and sometimes we wake up at 6.30 and he's still in his own bed. He gets a lot of praise for that. I don't want to 'kick him out' of our bed because dd's there and, like you, I don't want him to feel pushed out or resentful.

It's really difficult isn't it? All I can suggest is reviewing his daytime nap to see if that makes a difference. But of course, if he needs a nap in the day there's not a lot you can do about it.

Good luck!