RADICAL approach to toilet training needed

[claireybeemine]

DD is 2.9
She refused to wear nappies at 22 months. She was not at all ready (IMO) but she really wanted to wear knickers and fought me trying to put nappies on her so I said ok but you have to use the potty or toilet. The first couple of weeks she did brilliantly, she was mostly bare bummed at home and in training pants when out. She had chocolate buttons as a reward for using the potty or toilet.

After the first few weeks she started having accidents both out and at home-she was better if she had a bare bum though. The accidents got more and more frequent so we then did the cod boot camp to get her used to having to take her knickers/trousers off to go to the loo.

She got loads better and was mostly ok both at home and when out as long as she was reminded to use the toilet but was still forgetting to go either when tired and sat quietly or when really involved in playing.

Then she got worse again so we put her in nappies for a few days and got her a Peppa Pig reward chart and stickers (she was hugely into both Peppa and stickers at this point)-that made absolutely no difference at all, she just didn't care about getting stickers on the chart.

Then I did the whole sitting on the loo every 45 minutes thing, she'd sometimes go, sometimes not but we were still getting wet pants in between.

We spent 10 days at my parent's over Christmas, and my mum hit upon using jelly beans as a reward. She did really well there, and only had 2 accidents the entire time we were there(granny pleaser). Back home she continued to do well (still getting beans) but again gradually stoppped bothering to go to the toilet. Worse than before as she was now lying about needing to go, refusing to go when I sat her on the potty and then wetting herself 2 minutes later.

Through most of it I have stayed calm, praised the good, ignored the bad, changed her without comment but at that point I did tell her off a few times.

Then suddenly, a few weeks ago we seemed to have a breakthrough and she had over 2 weeks without any accidents until...Friday she wet herself 4 times and continued doing so over the weekend. I then put her back in nappies and told her if she wanted to just wee wherever she was then she had to wear nappies not knickers.

But she just won't wear the nappies, she'll let me put them on but then takes them off. She has been using the potty and toilet but has also wet herself a couple of times. I just don't know what to try next.

It has got to the point where it is hard for me to stay calm about it, I'm sick of cleaning up puddles of piss, I'm sick of my chairs being covered in it, I'm sick of having to take more changes of pants and clothes out for her than I do nappies for ds, I'm sick of having to do extra loads of washing because she has weed her way through her entire wardrobe. That is why I put her back in the nappies because I thought it would give us a break, I could calm down, she could get over whatever issue it is she has and then we could start again. But that hasn't worked because she just takes them off

What can I dooooooooooooooooooooooo?

Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

Oh I should say that poo is ALWAYS in the toilet so it is just wee she has an issue with.

Not that I am an expert, but I would leave her as long as you feel you can (minutes, not hours) in the wet clothes just enough so she can feel it is uncomfortable. May give her more incentive?

Thanks. It's worth a try anyway. I'm not sure if it will work because she is used to cloth nappies but I'll give it a go

OK, so she is used to feeling a bit damp. Sorry, no help there!

what sort of drinks does she have?
my dd was a mare like a bit like yours and i found cutting out fruit drinks and limiting drinks to just milk or water really really helped. Not limiting the amount of drinks just what they are

It could work though Marmaduke, I mean it must be more uncomfortable to have it cold and clammy in knickers and all down your legs than contained in a nappy!

Popmum she does have juice, normally watered down fruit juice but recently has been having high juice squash as well (it's cheaper!) I cut out red drinks before because I'd heard they were bad for bladder control but it didn't make any obvious difference. Will try giving her just water, not sure she'll be happy about it but if I just don't buy it then she won't have much choice

hope it works for you. my dd would have v good control and just wee a bit but was happy in wet pants (urrr!).
she will grow out of it but i share your pain.
might be worth looking at ERIC - they have a forum too where others may have suggestions (that was where i got my idea of no juice from)

Popmum yes dd often just does the start of a wee in her pants then stops until she is on the potty. Other times she just lets the whole lot out. Problem is when she first started just doing a little bit and then going to the toilet to finish I'd say "don't worry, it's just a little bit, you tried to go on the toilet" etc and then she started not worrying about it and just going in her pants then saying "it's just a little bit mummy"

Have you tried getting her to clean up the wee, changing her own pants etc? Very boring to a toddler time and time again, and it might just click that it's easier to go to the loo. Have you explored all the 'psychological' reasons for why she keeps wetting, Jealousy, playgroup, insecurity about something? Is she just fed up of being a big girl and wants to be a baby again? I think sometimes wetting can be a sign of the child trying to regain an element of control in their lives, you know, you can make her sit on the potty but you can't make her wee, so she then chooses somewhere else to do it. On the other hand it could just be a phase and things will improve.

Could you get some of the old style waterproof backed training pants to save your furnishings, my friends daughter used to wear hers over normal pants(!) I know it's more wet things but might limit the damage to your home. I think some people used to put a nappy booster in the training pants to try to absorb a flood. They are still pants after all as she is so averse to nappies.

Sometimes as others have mentioned, not drinking enough fluids and concentrated urine can cause wetting. The child may not get adequate signals that the bladder is full, so get her to drink lots and this will stretch the bladder well enough to hold a reasonable quantity, and give a clear signal it needs to empty. This might sort the start of a wee in her pants.

Thanks girly, lots in there.

I think it is partly wanting to be a baby again. DS is only 18 months younger than her and to begin with she was fine because he couldn't do anything that she could. Now he can do almost everything that she can so I think she is thinking well he doesn't have to go to the toilet so why should I?!

She sounds so much like my DD2! The swinging from not wanting them to worry but then getting frustrated that they stop caring is all to familiar!
We are now fine in the day (was 3 and a half before accidents stopped though) and now are still struggling with dry nights - she is just 5.
I hate upsetting her and play it down every time but am yelling internally at more wet bedding every other night. Just as soon as it stops being a big deal/gets relaxed about the issue/got her big incentive she spent 7 dry nights achieving she goes straight back to a wet bed. Aaaagh. She can do it but unless it is priority number 1 all the time every single night, she forgets/gets lazy.

We got her dry in the daytime with a royal music playing throne potty and a big jar of sugarfree jelly worms on the top shelf in the bathroom (I know, sweets in the bathroom... but needed to be within view). The combination of the treat and the incredible potty in the same place did work. The incentive worked long enough and at the right stage in her development to keep her going and form the new unconscious habit of "I need a wee" and making her way to the potty.

We used the incentive of new bedding (hideous Hannah Montana) if she was a grown up girl and stayed dry. Worked for a while

I'm finding this so hard at the moment

I find myself just wanting to yell at her to either keep the nappy on or wee in the potty.

I just don't get it, yesterday she did all her wees in the toilet until gone 3pm, then took her nappy off and did 2 in her trousers. She obviously can do it so why doesn't she??

Boredom, forgetfulness, tiredness, and knowing which buttons to press. I did a longer reply to another thread, but can see alot of parallels. You have one clever toddler. Hang in there, I'm confident you'll find a way to either a) outwit her, b) find something to motivate her, or c) not care so much!

Thanks for your reply. I've found the other thread and it is good to know that you have seen improvement

I have read this and all the while thought - here is a lady who knows exactly how I feel! Keira has been potty training for nearly a year - she is 4 in july and starts school in Sept. I have the same problems- the dribble in the pants, the full on wet pants. Not always teliing me about the accidents and appearing not to be bothered about being wet and flat out ignoring the need to go even when she is doing her little dance. I know she can do it because we have had dry weeks. We have been in and out of nappies 3 times, I have followed health visitor advice, sweets are rewards, star charts which all works at first ... you know the routine. Unlike your little one she didn't care if she was in nappies or not - until Tues morning where she flat out refused to wear nappies and said she doesn't want to be a baby anymore. So (here we go again) put her into pants. She was dry all day Tues at Nursery and home and dry Weds morn at nursery but wet at home, thurs the same dry at nursery and wet at home. Today at home she has been wet again so I have banned the tv (she was upset for about 5 mins then forgot all about the tv) I am back to basics again with her bare bottomed in the living room and she has just produced a big poop. I don't know what tomorrow will bring or what to do next or how much longer I'll cope before I crack. I plan to take a big deep breath go back to the beginning and try as hard as I can to ignore the 50 zillionth wet patch on the floor. I will say that this period of parenting has been the lonliest and most hard to endure especially when everyone elses child can do it and yours can't, I feel a complete failure and it has even made me re-consider whether I want more children. Don't get me wrong I love my daughter more than words can express and we share a lot of laughter and tenderness but the thought of going through potty training again ( and I haven't finished this cycle yet) makes me shudder - but I haven't lost my sense of humour

Such a relief reading this (though of course this not of any help to any of you!). I am having the same sorts of struggles with my son who is nearly three and has adamant he doesn't want to wear nappies any more but just refuses to wee on the toilet or potty. He absolutely hates us reminding him of it, just refuses to give it a try. It's making us crazy, trying to get that balance between not seeming to be bothered and not suggesting that its fine to wee all down your leg!

Lots of good ideas here. Am certainly not going to carry on rushing to change him. Will try and find the other thread that a few people mentioned.

One thing I did notice today was that he liked it when I let him go in and close the door. So there might be a privacy thing going on?

As I say, just great knowing you're not alone.

Meant to add, we tried a sticker reward chart but it really didn't work at all.