What am I doing here, this is all wrong isn;t it.

[Flightattendant27]

Have just got back from taking ds1 to a science festival thingy at local secondary school.

Went with Grandma and took ds2 in buggy. It was a nightmare getting around with a buggy - none of the doors were wide enough and ds2 was v tired and wanted to get down and run off, the rooms were very crowded, couldn't get to the front, couldn't hear from the back.

I asked ds1 which of us he'd prefer to stay and he said mummy, then grandma said she would quite like to stay anyway, so we tried and found how difficult it was. Asked him again and he said Grandma could stay, which meant I could take ds2 home.

Grandma could have taken ds2 instead of me but I truthfully didn't want to be there.
I can't figure out why and feel really really guilty at having left ds1 with grandma, when actually it's MY job to take him to things, he doesn't see me all term and then at the last minute I let him down at half term too.

He doesn't spend any time alone with me, yet this one time I had the chance to let my mother take ds2 and have a bit of fun with ds1, I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Why?

I know I find him hard to be with. I think also perhaps I'm afraid I'm no good for him - I'd have wanted to leave anyway, am not good with crowds, it was packed and very noisy and I have had literally about an hour's sleep last night (have got bad cold and ds was awake teething as well)

But mainly I just felt I'd be inadequate and he'd enjoy it more with Grandma.

I know she thinks I am a crap mother, he is her favourite and part of it was me saying to her 'look, Ok, you wanted to do it, you be the parent again and I'll leave you to it' as I feel that's what she wants. But partly I didn't want her to go off with ds2, because she doesn't like him, and made a point of not wanting me to leave him with her for very long as they'd 'get on each other's nerves' He is 20mo fgs.

So here I am miserable while my big boy is probably feeling rather rejected - I feel like I'm not really his mum at all

Don't be silly, you're not a bad mother. No-one would want to fight their way through crowds with a cold and not much sleep.

Are there any things that you would like to do that would be fun for DS1 that you could do together, rather than things that he would like to do but that aren't fun for you?

If your mother is making you feel inadequate (and how can you not get on with a 20 month old?) then I'd say it's her that is doing it all wrong, not you.

I think you are being far too hard in yourself

when i was little i LOVED 1 to 1 time with my grandparents!

and would have choses 1 to 1 with my grandparents over my parents any time!

didnt mean i loved my parents any less!

Poor you, you sound really tired and fed up. It's easy to find examples of how inadequate we are at all this when we're tired and run down - I think it sounds like the sort of event lots of people would struggle with. Try not to be so hard on yourself and maybe think of something you could do together that you'd both enjoy. I hope you feel better soon.

Thanks TA but I really struggle to think of anything me and ds1 can share.

We occasionally find something - recently we've had some good giggles doing writing when ds2 is asleep - we sit on his bed at night and he writes me silly messages (he's 5 and just learning to write) and he asks me to sing to him and read stories etc. This is all recent s he just started sleeping alone.

He keeps saying things like 'You only like ds2' with tears in his eyes, because I have broken up a fight between them and am comforting a wailing toddler - plus ds1 being quite mean to ds2 atm. I think being off school has meant he has to deal with a rampaging toddler far more than usual and his things/projects keep getting ruined by ds2, so he gets cross, shouts at ds2, ds2 cries, I pick him up etc etc etc

We are so different. I get on fine with ds2 but ds1 is a nemesis to me, it's not easy. Again probably my own issues but not sure why exactly.

Agree with Trillion - switch this around and think of something YOU would enjoy doing with him.

Frankly, the science thing sounds hidious. Good bleedin' luck to Grandma.

Incidentally, RE: your 20 month old, it's Grandma with the problem, not you!

STOP IT! Honestly, you sound like a sane mum to me and it's very honest to say what you've said which makes me think you're probably a great mum too. Do you have any time for yourself ever? If you don't then get some. Tell the world's best Grandma to take both kids out and to treat them equally or not to bother - how dare she make you feel like that and how dare she be like that to DS2 . Most of us would agree that a bit of space from time to time makes us far better mothers. I certainly need it.
Then why not change the pattern with DS1 and take him out by yourself. Not to any sort of kid friendly event as imo those are designed to make you hate your child. Just take him somewhere simple like the park - splash in the puddles with him, or stay in and build a den behind the sofa to have a picnic in. Do something you'd never do and enjoy being a bit anarchic and daft with him.

• whatever you do, don't listen to Grandma.

Listen to me - You are NOT a bad mother. Both of my dss are at my Mums today and tomorrow while I'm at work and I know they will have a far better time with her than if I'd stayed home with them. They love me, but they have more fun with her because she has endless patience and gives them her undivided attention, which she can easily do for a few days knowing she can hand them back to me tomorrow!
I always used to HATE going to the swings/playground/park with my 2. As soon as we got there I would be bored shitless and desperate to go home and I used to feel so inadequate compared to all the other Mum's who seemed to enjoy it, but its just not my thing, the same as crowded events like the science thing isn't yours.
Let Grandma do the things you don't like and you concentrate on finding something you can do with your ds.
at Grandma not getting on with a 20 month old though. That is all wrong. She should treat them both the same.

thankyou, I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates certain parenting things - walked home feeling like such a massive failure. I know mum thinks I am already. She always makes a show of normality to ds2 but I know she doesn't really like him - she just won't admit it.

The thing is I always felt she didn't like me much when I was a child, so I know how ds2 feels - but also I wonder how ds1 feels as he must sense I am more at ease around his little brother. He hasn't done anything to deserve it - and I'm not overtly horrid to him, well not very often - but I jsut feel like our personalities are completely at odds. It is SUCH hard work (and my job as his mum, obviously) to try and get on with him.

I try, God knows I do but everything I try and do for him he rejects, and everything he wants to do I can't. Even something I say will be taken completely the wrong way by him, through no fault of his own, and however hard I try and make him laugh or smile or just feel loved, he doesn't want what I do. Does that make any sense? It reduces me to tears frequently - just imagine how he must feel.

It's like trying to show a tourist round a city and they speak very little English, and every single sentence goes disastrously wrong, because you just don't get each other.

I'm not explaining very well, I've spent 5 years feeling like it is all my fault and I'm crap, but now I have ds2 and we relate so much better - which makes me wonder if it is purely personality?

Feel free to tell me if it's obviously my doing, and how to get on better with him - he just drives me bonkers

I recently did an evening parenting course focussed on praise and nurturing. If you are going through a difficult stage with any of your children and you are struggling to come up with a positive message for them, think about praising them just for being who they are.

"you are such a handsome boy" "you have the most infectious laugh which I love" etc.

It really can work very well to staunch a negative spiral.

I hate that my mum is better at some things with DS than I am, but she is. Doesn't make me any less his mother.

I would build on the simple things you have identified - quiet bedtime activities together. And you need to try taking his woundedness at you supporting DS2 when he is hurt in an argument as calmly as possible "he is little and upset and needs me to comfort him, when someone bigger upsets you I will do the same for you in a heartbeat".

You sound pretty normal to me - I think your feelings about your mother are undermning your confidence as a paretn.

Thankyou Kew...I think I need a parenting course actually.

I do the praise thing a lot - I really try and tell him he's great and clever and all the stuff he is good at, and nice things about him - of which there are plenty, don't get me wrong. It's just connecting with him.

I can see what a lovely child he is but it doesn't feel like he is mine, I don't get on with him better than other people, which is how I feel it should be I suppose - like we have a special bond just because we're related.

I feel like that about ds2 though. It must be something in me and it's not fair for him.

I'm going to try and get some counselling to sort it out. I had an appointment the other week with GP but couldn't go.

Thanks again.

I really enjoyed the evening and I know they run it as a longer series of evening classes. They thin kbecasue we adopted we need mor direction in the skills of paretning I think!

Have you read anything about attachment - I wonder if you have some sort of incomplete attachment (KC bumbles around not really knowing).

and yes btw I don;t doubt that someitmes a differnce of personality will make some children harder for you to parent than others. Not sure what the answer to that it... pretend?

Yes, pretend is often the answer here but not really a proper answer, is it - he must know on some level. I hope he doesn't experience it as an intense feeling of rejection as I did as a child. My mother wasn't very cuddly at all, and I do grab ds1 for cuddles quite frequently - he's just not how I imagined my child would be. It sounds so silly. But can be very misery making at times.

Yes I think it's quite likely there's an incomplete attachment - or something like that. Not sure how to go about sorting it out though. I think I grew up never having made an attachment to my own mum, and it did cause real problems - I still get v depressed and had long term eating disorder etc. I see her a lot now but don't feel attached to her, not in a healthy way.

I'll start with the counselling anyway and see where it leads. Btw I know some people who adopted and fwiw I think they are far better parents than many who have birth children...something to do with wanting to be in that role, wanting to be an actua parent rather than wanting to have a child...does that make sense?

there are some good books on promoting attachment - I'll see what I can dig up for you. I found pretending worked very well with DS until the real thing kicked in - you just need to give it a helpig hand. Attachment often a problem if there are issues of depression in the early years (ie under 2)

Personally I'd give up any idea of attaching to your mother - sounds more like issues with her own paretning than you!

also I suppose having adoptes - I expect nothing of DS - I don;t expect him, to be like me in any way, to like the same things or have similar talents because he's not genetically related.

Having no expectations helped - I was so terrified of what child I might be matched with that when he turned out to be pretty fab and verging on normal (as much as any toddler is!) it was a blessed relief!

Thanks.
Perhaps it was to do with expectation. The thing is I've always got on well with certain children and not really with other types.
I used to do a lot of babysitting and playing with the little ones round our street when I was a teen. There were a few kids I honestly didn't connect with, they didn't like me, I didn't really like them! A lot who were neither here nor there. And a couple who were quite special.

One little girl I could sit on the pavement with for hours, just nattering, or take her for walks etc. We were very close and she used to cry when I took her home - her mum worked late and she was the littlest of four, I think she just wanted more attention which is possibly whey I felt so close to her - being her 'rescuer' iyswim.

You can't always plan what kind of child you give birth to I guess!

flightattendant, the main things are

1 you are NOT a bad mum, you sound like a great mum who is honest enough to face up to problems and deal with them courageously!

1. it sounds like you have not had an easy ride as a child yourself, and you perhaps can explore that through counselling or whatever, to find out if that is holding you back with your son

1. you've said your mother was not a great mother herself so don't set too much store by her opinion of your mothering, you are doing very well in the here and now. this granny behaviour reminds me of an aunt of mine who loves grandson one and calls him 'hers' and not so much grandson 2, it sounds quite manipulative..

1. it is nice for DS 1 to have time with granny, not a failing on your part

1. when we're tired we can't think straight and get grumpy, all mums are like this and kids just have to put up with it, that's life, it doesn't make you a bad mother!

1. I agree with other posters that say be very positive and it sounds like exactly what you're doing

1. do you have support from your DH/DP? what does he say?

1. I do think parents have favourites and get on better with different kids, that's OK. the main thing is to love and support your DS, which is what you do, day in day out. relationships might also change as they get older.

sorry to have a numbered list like a maniac, that's just how I did it, but in summary, just don't beat yourself up and give yourself a break! and good luck!

It's funny, Kew, how all these courses are forced down the throats of promoted to parents who are adopting (a friend has just been on one - she is about to adopt DC2 - DC1 is hers by birth) but almost invisible to birth parents?

OP it does sound like a course/book/advice on attachment would help, but to a certain extent what you are experiencing is normal - your post about DS1 getting upset because you are comforting DS2 rings a lot of bells with me - my DS quite often gets upset and weepy about DD getting "all" the cuddles, etc. I have found that I have to deliberately and visible take his side (not hard, DD is v. often the one 'in the wrong') and also prioritise him sometimes - for example, they both go to bed at the same time, but then DD has to wait, quietly (with bottle) in her bed while DS gets his story first. Making that kind of conscious effort has helped to alleviate his feelings of being 'pushed out'.

(oh and my parents do a lot more 'worthy' parenting things with DS than I do too - I just plain do not have time (or patience ))

You are being way too hard on yourself, you know! I am a really cruddy non-baking, non-swimming lessons kind of mum, and most of the clothes my two get my mum buys. The eldest gets loads of attention from family because with working and running after the one with special needs, I just don't have time. I also chase encourage her up to bed extremely promptly so I can have a bit of adult time with DP.

Yet I don't feel guilty - life is too bloody short! On the plus side, I am mostly very cheerful and fun to be around when I am with them, and I really don't think they are missing out. Maybe you need to focus more on letting go of feeling guilty and crap about yourself? I think that if you are relaxed, albeit with your shortcomings, then everybody benefits. I think you need to be a bit kinder to yourself, hun (un-MNy, I know...)

Just thought I'd add that sometimes (often!) kids reject/ battle/ find fault with the person they love most, so that's you to DS1. Makes it no easier I know, nor does it dismiss your worries over it being a personality clash, but if it is that, then let's face it nothing you can do will alter it, and it doesn't mean you're not a good mother, nor does it mean that you've done anything wrong. Your son loves you more than anything by the sound of it. Stroppiness and disagreement is a true sign.