Do small kids really need that much socialisation?

[Fleurlechaunte]

I struggle a bit with the whole todder group thing and I don't know anyone else with children let alone of the same age as mine.

I take my dc to the park daily, whatever the weather and they see other kids there. I very, very occasionally make myself do the toddler group thing.

Worrying a bit that this is not enough. Anyone got any thoughts or ideas about this? Should I make more effort to do the toddler group thing. I really do find it difficult as find social situations quite taxing.

My thoughts entirely, Mrs Mattie.
An inane comment made here accused me of spending too much time "on my own".
Err, ON MY OWN? Perfectly natural to want to be on my own WITH MY CHILD, in my world.

I'm wondering if the most important thing is in fact for the child to see the adults in his/her life getting socialisation, which they clearly need. Probably watching your mum/dad get obvious pleasure from seeing people and having a chat is just as instructive for a child. I can't think it's any help to watch your parents immerse themselves in social situations in which they're clearly uncomfortable mind you.

And they should see some other children IMO so they know what it's like being chucked into a roomful of your peers (which happens at some point to almost all children when they go to school/preschool etc.)

Firstly try not to beat yourself up about what you do and don't do with your child Fleurchaunte.

I have two children one who is 4 and another who is nearly one. My four year old and I never really went to toddler groups when she was under two as I found that she did not really 'play' with other children at this age and I used to find them hellish places! But other parents thought they were fabulous. It sounds as if your dc gets as much from going to the park and playing with other kids there.

When my daughter started walking I took her to Tumbletots once per week as the group was more focused/structured with some freedoms too (the child could choose what they went on but there was always a song at the end of play. It also meant that I did not have to feel I had to talk all the time with the others mums (I was there for my daughter after all) and my daughter loved it. Maybe this loose 'structure' could suit.

Because your child has Autism this may affect the way that they interact with other children and I would imagine some of these groups may be stressful. It certainly wont make it worse but it is difficult to know exactly how you Dc is interpreting what is going on around them at this age. This is true of all kids to be honest!!

My Dd has developed in to a chatty child despite not being taken to group after group. But she has mixed with people of all ages, toddlers through to 80 year old. Have you thought about taking your child swimming or feeding the ducks, soft play areas and so forth. These are all opportunities to mix with other children. A regular toddler group once per week may be fine, if you are happy with it too.

IME my daughter did not really 'play' with other kids until she was over 2 years old. Up until then she was copying or playing along side.

It has to work for you both......

I lead a M&T group and what I can say is that little ones enjoy themself at most ages but the socialising bit of it, making friends for themeself ... comes at arround 2yo, for what I observed here, not really any earlier.

I think some mother, including myself have started to go to toddlers group with babies to have an occasion to go out of the house, not really for the baby who will probalbly sleep all the way through. Gets them used to quite a bit of nose though!

I think it depends quite a lot on the child as much as on the parent. My DS started nursery 2 days a week when he was just coming up to 1, and around the same time we started toddler groups. THe nursery was partly because I needed to work, but I had also noticed that he was starting to take an interest in other babies and small children, holding out his hand and babbling to them, so I thought it was probably time to try out a bit of child-socialising. ANd he loves it. I have been up and down in my fondness for toddler groups ie enjoyed some and endured others, but the other thing that's important to me is the two or three longstanding friends of mine who have DC around DS's age, so we can all socialise together sometimes and I don't have to censor half my conversations...

Fleur - it depends on you and your child. The whole 'socialisation' thing (as in: children need a constant diet of other children) is a modern invention. If you take your dd shopping, to the park and so on, that is perfectly good 'socialisation' (and, arguably, it's a better training for being social in real life - it invariably involves people of different ages, not just a tiny two-year-old section of the population).

Lots of mothers go to playgroups and such like because they want to chat to other mothers. I didn't with DS; I did with DD (partly because I'd been at home with DS for two years by then, and fancied a change of scenery, and partly because DD likes other children). It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with.

There's no compulsion to send your DD to nursery either. My DS (6.8) didn't do anything like that, and he is perfectly able to socialise with other children now!

Agree with dottoressa. Although my ds is the youngest of 5 he had virtually no interaction with children his age until he started pre-school at age 2 1/2. He came shopping with me twice a week, we did the school run every day (where if he interacted with anyone it would usually be adults) and that was about it.

I was worried that he wasn't getting enough contact with children his own age but he has settled in really well at pre-school. Although a little shy at first he is now (six months later) the life and soul of the group.

Gateau, Yes we do loads of stuff. She is really into books so I always drop everything when she brings me a book, we do gardening and cooking together. I am not a craft devotee but we we have a portable art desk with chalks and letters, we do that quite a lot. Simple puzzles as well. We got to the park every day whatever the weather, feeding the ducks etc. We go to Soft Play as well. Also a Baby Gym just opened near us so will look into that.

I know it got a bit heated but I agree with you about really enjoying the one on one time with your dc. I am like that. I don't seem to have ANYTHING in common with the other Mums I meet and it just feels like really hard work to keep a conversation going.

I don't actually feel so pressurised now due to the answers on this thread so might find it a bit easier to do.

Mrsgboring - Think you are right about seeing other children to know how to deal with being suddenly surrounded by loads of other kids. Going to start taking her to a M&T group at least once a week from now on. Even I can do that. I was wondering if that was enough though and honestly couldn't face the idea of anymore so this thread has been really helpful actually, in that I don't feel pressured to take her three times a week or anything like that. I know I must sound really sad but I really do find it hard.

Gateau - Also do some interactive stuff on the CBeebies website and there is also a British Council website that has stories and activities on that I do with both of the dc. They are really good. Just an idea for you.

You aren't sad because you like to be with your DD alone, Fleur. It's perfectly normal and content to be like that. I find that when I'm with DS alone, we can set our own agenda and do what WE want to do, not anyone else. Eg if it's a gorgeous morning, we just get up and go to the park. We don't have any bloody class scheduled in and paid for.
And yes, I mostly find talking with other Mums quite boring too. Of course I do have friends, but they would be friends anyway,whether we had kids or not.
Am not sure whay Lilimama got so het up and defensive about what I choose to do. Too defensive, really .

I totally agree that it depends on you and your child. Mine started nursery twice a week when they were around 12 months, mainly because I wanted them to learn English (both me and dh are Italian) gradually and be fluent before they started school. I also needed a break, as I found that living in a foreign country with small children and no friends was quite a depressing experience. And i didn't enjoy toddlers groups at all.
I do find this emphasis on socialization a bit , as indeed usually children become "social animals" at around 3. However there is nothing wrong for mothers to want to socialize themselves, being a full time mother is a rewarding experience, but can be very lonely (depending of course on personality).

Yup - agree franca too - when my oldest ones were smaller we went to mother and baby groups 2 or 3 times a week - for my sanity more than for them. Now I have the school run I get my gossip there and if I went to m&b groups too there would be no time for housework.

I entirely agree with those who say that children don't need socialization until pre-school age. I don't think it is any coincidence that pre-schools take children at the point in their development when become capable of cooperative rather than parallell play (they can play together not along side one another).

I take a very broad view of what socialization involves. To me it is about getting out the house and meeting people. That doesn't necessarily mean activities for children but things like going to the shops, library, visiting relatives, anything that involves seeing other people. My DS1 for example, loved taking the car to the garage and watching MOT's and car washes (weird child). It is about getting to know the world really not him spending all his time with other children(although he did that too).

I do think if you persevere with a toddler group it will get easier. Once a week is enough but it takes time to settle in. Offer to help if help is ever required - that always goes down well. You will slot in eventually.

I also wonder about having to socialize to get children 'ready' for school. I never went to nursery and fitted into school with no problems. My brother did go, my mother knew people through taking me to school and generally he was much better 'socialized' by the standards of some people on this thread and he took ages, years even, to settle into going to school. I do that that it is all a bit of a red herring to be honest.

I agree it is a red herring. Also, it doesn't necessarily mean that a child who is settled and content at nursery, will find it easy at school. And the opposite. I didn't enjoy going to nursery school (we moved house and nurseries and it was unsettling) but loved/ and got settled in primary from day one.

I think there are masses of ways of "preparing" a child for pre-school and that as long as a child hasn't been cloistered at home exclusively with a parent for three years with no contact with other human beings, he/she will mostly be adequately prepared, be it through nursery/childminder/being out and about with a parent.

Having said that, I do think that being with older children is a great experience for most children and that it is generally first borns who find starting school a bit hard because they aren't used to the rough and tumble. So days with cousins/friends with older children are great opportunities for babies and toddlers.

Well,

i ve lived many years in London but my roots are in Italy, Spain and Greece (yes, half Italian, quarter Spanish and quarter Greek). I am also maried to a Cypriot. I ve lived in all the above countries and they have none or only 1-2 classes in the capital city maybe.

Still children are growing up fine and they dont turn into antisocial psychos.You see them on your holidays, do they look antisocial?

As long as you go out for fresh air, OP you are doing fine.

As for coming every day from Nursury/playgroup with new skills and words, they were going to learn these skills/words anyway.

Ah, my friend Tiramissu; we meet again; and agree again.

Yes, there aren't many activities for under 3 here in Italy. Actually there are some here in Milan, but they are very expensive, compared to those in the UK. It is true though, that the family settings are different here, people don't move around as much as in the UK, so there is less need for mothers to meet new people (other mothers) iyswim.
And from 3 yrs old to 6 nursery schools are free here, so the majority of children attend nursery school regularly, at least in big cities.

Tiramissu - I agree especially with your last paragraph.

You can't stop them learning at that age. They will pick up language and skills from anywhere.

I dislike the phrase 'socialisation' - unless you are a hermit it happens naturally - not by attendance at specific groups. I don't know about autism etc - this is my opinion generally. But getting on the bus, going to the park, saying good morning in a shop, smiling at the old lady down the road. All this is learning and discovering how people treat each other. Later when children actually want to play together is different but at first - until around 3 - what you learn in your family is more than adequate.