German grandmother for my 2 dc's

[walkinthewoods]

DC's grandmother (Oma) is native German. I am keen for dc's to learn German and would have ;liked them to start earlier but dp was against it as (and I dont know what) but there is evidence to suggest its confusing for tinkles.

DD is nearly 5 and ds is nearly 3. They see Oma and Opa every weekend and Oma has started with German nursery rhymes. She is very keen to get them learning. She did not do this with her own DC's (my dp) and regrets it. She had a horrendous upbringing in war torn Germany and kind of didn't want to remind herself (another ishoo).

What's the best way about it. I would have been quite happy for Oma to have spoken to them in German from go but dp didn';t want this. Oma often speaks on the phone in German when we are there.

DD says Oma speaks rubbish sometimes (when she speaks German), bless her

I don't think your dc are too old to acquire German in the manner dc do and I don't think it will be confusing for them, however they will need a lot more than occasionally hearing it from their Oma. They really need regular contact to someone who will speak to them in German. Is this possible?

Depending how you feel about tv, you could try and pick up German children's TV (Kika) and use that to help supplement their learning a bit. I'm not a great fan of TV and my dd doesn't ever watch it but it can be a useful language tool I'll admit.

THe best way IMO is to learn with and from other dc (German speakers) but I'm not sure if that is a possibility where you live.

My dd learnt German in German kindergarten from the age of 2. She knew no word of German prior to that and it took about 1 year. After 2 years you could not tell her apart from a native speaker but she was truly immersed inthe language, being there 5 x a week from 9-3. I know a 6 year old who went to school in Germany with no German but was speaking fluently after a year (with a cute French accent and some mistakes still). Living in a non-German speaking environment I would say it will take a lot longer but the more they hear German and have a reason to speak it, the better they'll progress.

I agree with ZZZen.

My DH is German and always spoke German with the DC, we were living in Germany at the time. When DD went to kindergarten at 3yo she spoke only English, within a short period of time she switched to German which is still her preferred language.

We have recently moved to French-speaking Switzerland and so they are both now learning French. DD is 6yo and DS 4yo.

As ZZZen said, it will be more difficult to teach them German when their exposure to the language is minimal. Obviously finding some more German speakers would be good, or TV/books.

It is an enormous chance for your children to learn a second language. Did you know that the "window" for a child to learn a second language as a native speaker closes at approx. 7 - 8yo. After that the child can still learn a language but it is much more difficult and the basics of grammar have to be learned rather than just absorbed.

There is also evidence to suggest that bilingual children find it easier than monolingual children to learn a third or fourth language.

If you want to read up on it, I can recommend the book, A Parent's Guide to Bilingualism from Pamela Fitzpatrick.

Walkinthewoods, there is NO evidence at all that teaching babies two languages from birth is confusing. On the contrary, the sooner you start, the more beneficial. As MmeLindt said, the window of native language learning closes around age 6-7 years.

We too are raising our children bilingually in German/English, living in UK. From birth, we have adopted a one-person one-language approach and have supplemented this with German books, dvds, German Saturday School, German holidays. My 6 year old talks both languages fluently while my 4 year old is still mixing them a little.

If you want your children to become bilingual in German/English, you need go provide as much German exposure as possible, especially if they go to an English school. I think they need A LOT more than hearing it occasionally from Oma... Your dh should ONLY speak to them in German and you could try to buy some German dvds, books, cds etc.

From my experience, if you provide enough 'minority language' children will become bilingually, but it does require effort and consistency. But it will be worth it - Good luck!

Afaik there is no evidence that it is confusing for babies or small children to learn two or more languages. Some people say that they may start talking later but I don't think this is down to confusion. In any case it's a small price to pay for the benefits of being bilingual later in life.

Our dc have been raised bilingually (English and German) and I would confirm what MissusLindt says that it is much easier for them to learn a third foreign language (they are learning French at school) than for their classmates. I teach Englsh to German pupils and the best student in one of my classes is bilingual (German/Turkish).

Even if they only have limited exposure to German from Oma and Opa it will hopefully provide them with a good foundation in the language and make it easier to learn later.

Good luck!

Taipo
I noticed that as well, one of my English pupils was from a Polish/German home and she was really much better than the monolingual German children.

dh's mum is austrian and he spoke german/english till he was 5. His teacher at school said he would become confused so she stopped with the german. dh's oma and opa didn;t speak english so he still spoke a little when visiting in austria so he now understands lots but doesn't have the confidence to speak.

I am a teacher and have had many bilingual children and would say it is only ever a good thing. We celbreated polish, french, afikans and german by letting the children speak their first/second language and showing the class what they can do. When children are young it is the perfect time to learn and it would be fab for your dc's oma can be invloved.

Dh's mum won;t speak german to our children as she still quotes what the teacher told her which annoys me as we have a native german speaker -who better to learn from? - in the family. Our ds 1 is very proud of his austrian Grandma -she won't be called oma, yet her children called her mother oma/opa. Strange, but there you go.

Mme Lindt, I think you're right about bilingualism helping to learn a 3rd (or 4th) language. Understanding the concept of different 'labels' for the same thing is helpful as is the larger number of phonemes available to bilingual children.

My dd (6) is learning French at school and is doing very well compared to some of her English peers. I also think she has a better pronounciation because a lot of the phonemes/sounds in French are the same as in German (e.g. the 'r' in rouge).

In my experience whether a child is a late or early talker has nothing to do with bilingualism but simply with the child itself - we all develop differently. Several studies have confirmed this. So please don't worry about confusing your children by raising them biligually!!

Oh thanks everyone! I really wanted them to start sooner than this and am annoyed I haven't pushed the issue. Dp doesn't speak German.

Do you think that Oma should speak only in German to them now, would that be confusing flipping from Oma speaking English to Oma speaking German?

Does anyone have any empirical evidnce/studies that this won't harm their English language skills because I know dp will want proof.

I'll google to see if there is any German centred local stuff around (school are doing French)

I think any German your Oma speaks to them is going to be beneficial, even if it's only the occasional nursery rhyme. Because she hasn't started from scratch, I think she should start gradually, with something that is fun for everybody and then build up.

There are some people who believe the OPOL approach is the only possible and that children will get confused if the same person uses more than one language with them, but I have never noticed any signs of this with mine. I speak both Swedish and English to them and they are fluent in both.

No sign of their English having come to any harm: dd has been in top set for literacy since Year 2 and her teachers have always commented on her excellent language skills.

My parents taught me English and German at home from an early age, and later French and Latin: I always got top marks for my native language too. m

The empirical evidence is that this is how the vast majority of bilinguals become bilingual.

Books like the one mmelindt mentions, though user-friendly and helpful, are serious texts with academic-style referencing if you want articles to back it up.

However, in the very short term they might appear to be confused so I guess the evidence you'll come out the other side is good to fall back on.

Good luck!

I'm sure the way forward is for Oma to only speak German from now onwards. It certainly won't harm their English skills, but I can't quote any academic studies to pursaude your DH.
We (both native English speakers)spent 5.5 years in Austria amd as a result DS(age 6) is (or was) a fluent German speaker. His German was picked up entirely at Kindergarten and previously with a Tagesmutter. He is not exposed to German on a regular basis in the UK (except CD's etc) but at the moment is still retaining some of it.

The problem is the social situation. If an Oma whom they have always been able to speak to in the only language they currently understand suddenly starts addressing them in a language they do not understand and refuses to explain, they may react with anger and trying to avoid speaking to Oma at all.

This situation is not comparable either to that of a child who is addressed from birth in a second language, nor to one who starts attending a new school/kindergarten with a new language. This is about a familiar person suddenly changing. I would step carefully if I were you. Definitely encourage Oma to introduce German, just ask her to do it one step at a time and in a fun context.

Good thoughts cory.

Have just googled kika and they've got a website. DS was glued to a cartoon and watched it 3 times.

Good point, Cory. I knew an English family, living in Germany. The son went to work with his Dad one day and heard him speaking German to his colleauges. From that day on he refused to speak English with his father as he "didn't know you spoke German, Daddy". He was 6yo and never spoke English again with his father, he felt betrayed.

How about getting Oma to get some familiar books in German and read them. The Gruffallo books are translated into German and good fun. She will have to say the words in German then in English to make sure they understand.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that when you start singing nursery rhymes to them and they sing them back that they actually understand what they are singing. I remember singing Happy Birthday To You with a group of kindergarten children and asking them what it meant. None of them knew, but they all could sing the song word for word.

She could start by doing games eg. the children dance to music, Oma shouts "Hinsetzen" and the first to sit down is the winner, then she shouts "Aufstehen" and they have to stand up again. Kind of a German musical bumps.

Get her to teach basics such as run, jump, touch, hop, stand up, sit down, fall down, by doing the actions with them. She can then add colours, the body etc.

Another good game for colours is to shout the colour and the children have to find something in the room that colour. She repeats "Etwas blaues anfassen, blau, blau, fass etwas blaues an..."

Lots of repetition, not too much at once.

Once they are more confident then you could see about introducing TV or DVD. You can get German TV in UK but only with satellite TV afaik. There are some good DVDs though. And look out for the CDs of a German guy called Rolf Zuckowski, a rare find: Childrens's CDs that adults like to listen to as well.

Good luck!