I'm running out of patience with my stroppy nearly 8 year old DD, it's like living with a teenager.

[sandyballs]

She wouldn't get out of bed this morning, I stayed calm and chatty, she moaned and groaned and screamed down the stairs about her school trousers being wrong, her socks being wrong, pants, cardigan, you name it. I still tried to stay calm, whilst telling her that if she continued to speak to me in that manner she wouldn't be getting her playtime fruit/muesli bar thingy. Her response as usual was to roll her eyes, shrug her shoulders and say 'whatever' which enrages me, although again I tried to stay calm.

Her sister in the meantime (same age) is completely left out whilst I have to focus on O. She just gets on with it in the background and gets herself completely ready without any fuss. And she also usually gets a late mark, despite all this effort from her, because of her sister .

O is eventually dressed but stamping around saying she hates me. She calms down and says sorry, expecting me to just forget her bad behaviour, which I usually do but I had enough this morning and refused to acknowledge her sorry. Childish I know.

We get to school and O is in floods of tears, doesn't want to go in. She won't tell me what is wrong, says nothing, she just doesn't fancy school today. I'm going to try and see her teacher this evening to see if anything is going on. Would problems at school spill over into the home so much?

I love her to pieces but she's a very demanding, bright, difficult character that I struggle to 'get', if that makes any sense. She's nearly 8 and I really don't know what makes her tick. I feel terribly guilty that I 'get' her sister completely and utterly.

Sorry to go on and on, this must be very boring to read but I feel thoroughly depressed this morning, which isn't like me.

That sounds like my DD yesterday

She has recently (last couple of months) been refusing to get out of bed, and then having a tantrum...

Yesterday she told me she hated me and that i was mean because I asked her to brush and tie up her hair (she doesn't like me doing it) It is far from the first time she has said these kind of things to me, but I got very upset and she then also get upset and said she only says them because she is angry, but doesn't mean them

She is starting to "sprout" and I think she is pre-pubescent.... looks like it will go on for a lot longer

She is an angel at school

My DH wondered if it is hormonal. God help us if this starts at 8 . when will it end? She's definitely not starting to 'sprout' though, how old is your DD?

My DD is an angel at school too.

My dd (7) is very similar - and I too have the guilt that I 'get' her brother and jsut seem to miss out on understanding her
Dd say she hates me in a rage, but is really sorry once her temper has passed and writes me the most lovely cards to say sorry I am finding it increasingly difficult to 'forgive and forget' after these moods too

My dd is very good at school too but we have spoken to her teacher as I am very aware that she is a perfectionist who struggles when she thinks she doesn't do well at school (she does just fine btw, most of her failures seem to be in her head; the teachers are happy with her progress) We are working v hard to raise her self esteem re school work and are finding a (small but evident) knock-on effect at home.....

She's a very creative day-dreamy character, I'm not sure if this makes her frustrated to have to achieve set tasks when she has her head in the clouds....

Bianca, you have just described my DD, down to a tee! Perfectionist, creative, day-dreamer. She also wants to be the best at school and finds it very hard to accept if she isn't. She's doing well but finding year 3 harder than previous years, she seems to have reached a kind of plateau while other kids are catching up with her, something she isn't used to.

That's the same with my dd too - she's plateau-ed out in year 3 and feels everyone else is now better than her at everything!

It's very difficult to deal with though isn't it? I dread the teenage years if it's hormonal too.....

DD is 9 1/2, and pretty short for her age. She has older, taller, heavier friends that aren't sprouting yet

She is generally a very bubbly, outgoing child, confident, polite (at least in public!) and quite sensible.

She seems to be constantly saying the opposite of me (and DH when home!) and just being a grumpy pre-teenager, but only in the house at the moment!

DD is competitive, but not a perfectionist. She does well with most things, but also has friends who are just as good or better, so I don't think it's that - sadly just growing up, I guess.

Dd1 has just turned 9 and is exactly the same. Sometimes I think she has worse PMT than I do. I don't really know what to do about it except to point out when her behaviour is unhelpful and unreasonable and praise her when she is being the sweet, likeable little girl that I know is in there. It's very tiring, though.

The real flashpoint for us is in the mornings when we have to go to school / work, and I can't just walk away and leave her.

We try waking her really early so more time, but she still moans and shouts....

She used to get out of bed too early until a year or so ago!

Sandyballs & Bianac, your dds sound so much like mine and it is quite comforting to know that my dd is not behaving out of the ordinary. DD is 7.5 years and like you both say, it is like having a teenager - the flouncing, eyes rolling, sudden outburts of temper the list goes on. What breaks my heart is that she is such a loving, gentle girl but just cannot seem to control herself. Her good moods only seem to last for short spells before she has one of her "melt downs". Like your dds, she is a little angel at school.

My very lovely auntie who has become like a mum to me since I lost my own mum, said that seems like the easy option to overlook this behaviour, but if I do she will get worse. She advised, however hard and frustrating, to keep going with the discipline, don't tolerate the cheekiness and the stroppy behaviour and gradually she will come out of this phase. Good advice but when you're going through it, it does seem like it will never end.

Sandyballs, Like you, I get very down and depressed about it sometimes and I don't know how to deal with it at times. Recently dd decided that she would do a chart for her and her brother, she insisted on making it, and it has a movable arrow which points to either a good, ok or naughty face. Have had it for about a week now and have noticed a slight improvement. I also wrote some house rules down together with the children (which included no shouting, especially mummy!) and these also seem to be working quite well.

Good luck and I hope you and your dd find a way forward.

stripeytiger - it is nice to know we're not alone! We did some New Year resolutions with the kids too and dd came up with lots of "less fighting", "less arguing" type of ideas - she seems to hate it as much as we do; she just can't control herself

When she's lovely my dd is really lovely so I think there's hope for this to pass

Interesting how girls of a similar age are going through this. Thanks for all your replies. Stripeytiger, I agree that it is comforting in a way to know you're not alone!

My DD can have times when she is lovely at home, but they are getting fewer, unfortunately, and her behaviour is odd even then. On Sunday it seemed as though she was trying very very hard not to get shouty and rude, but it was almost over the top. I'm finding it hard to explain, but it seemed as though she was over apologetic and over anxious to please. She seems to veer between this sort of behaviour and the yelling and shouting, not much middle ground. I do make a big effort to praise her when she is being good.

Good advice from your auntie StripeyTiger - my mother is no help with advice and MIL only had boys!

Oh we have this with dd (7) in the mornings. It goes on too doesn't it, so you do well one morning, but by the third you snap.

How to Talk is the way forward! [I'm being v. bossy on MN today I've noticed]

Really. Honestly.

Avoid the whole 'you are disappointing me' 'you must control yourself' 'you are SO RUDE, I'm so upset' scenario. They can't control themselves, so don't make them feel bad for being grumpy and difficult. Step out of the vortex!

I actually lay on dd's bed this morning and said 'wouldn't it be great if you didn't have to go to school and we could just lie here and stare at the ceiling' and she agreed and then said 'but we'd get bored after a bit. I'm going to get dressed.'

Try How to Talk for a week - it works!

ahundredtimes, that sounds like a pretty good idea. Quite frankly at the moment I would give anything a go to have peace and keep dd on an even keel. It really does seem like I am treading on egg shells with her and when my pmt kicks in there are usually fireworks

I think on the whole little girls are more complex creatures and take a lot more understanding at times. They also seem to have so much more confidence and be a lot more grown up than I remember being at that age.

I await the teenage years with interest

Yes, agree. I have two older ds's. I am playing catch up BIG TIME. Is a whole new world.

HTT if anything is more effective with her because everything is so bloody EMOTIONAL all the time! So actually the getting in alongside and in effect showing empathy - which is what it does I suppose - works really well. Whereas the HTT stuff that works with the boys is the bit that stops you nagging - like leaving notes, or saying 'the floor is covered in your shoes'. I hadn't thought about it before now.

Really, do try the book. The reason I bang on about it all the time is not because I'm so perfect but because I fall into bad habits really quickly, and I like the fact it makes me think and say something else - when I remember to

Also - I meant to say. Don't be said that you don't 'get' her. That's part of the fun isn't it? Working out who this person is, how best to raise them, what they like, what they don't like.

It makes it more difficult, but don't be sad about it. It's The Challenge!

hello everyone - i have this sort of behaviour in my 7 yr old DD too and two things have helped - 1/ 'how to talk' and 2/ 'raising your spirited child'. definitely worth getting hold of both! mine is actually pretty good at the moment but mornings can be terrible and used to reduce me to tears in the past, so i know how you feel. she is young enough to respond to a penny/pasta jar type thing. if it's hormonal then she has been suffering from pre-pubescence for years - since toddlerhood!! i too wonder how i will get through the teenage years!! i agree completely with a zero tolerance approach to the worst of the stroppiness but sometimes i do let the medium level stuff go in my rush to get out of the house on time...must watch that tendency...good luck and you are not on your own, far from it!