Single mothers and Visiting Daddy

[Tel]

Having recently split from my son's father, we both agreed initially that he would continue to be involved and I would visit regularly (he lives abroad). The first such visit is now looming, which I'm determined to make a nice time of, for all our sakes, but he is now umming and aahing about whether he can cope with seeing me. Two issues really: to see our son (only 4 months), he has to see me (where he goes, I go). Or, if he can't handle seeing me he doesn't see his son. Short of just going abroad and risk being made unwelcome (and I am prepared to do this, not sure if that's right or not) , I am getting a bit cross becuase it's making me realise I can't make him be a good father, and also I don't want our son to know when he's older that Daddy wasn't prepared to be civil to Mummy if it meant he could spend time with him. Does anyone have experience of this kind of situation? I think I'm going to go ahead anyway and buy the plane ticket, if it really is dreadful then I can just hop home. I would be interested in any tips on how to make this first visit easier for all concerned. Also, how do other mums plan and organise visits and time with Daddy? And how often? How important is it when they are this young? Sorry - lots of questions and issues - rather garbled too!

Hi Tel,
I had exactly the same problem with my ex. I left him when I was 7 months pregnant but always wanted him involved with the baby. He also said that he wanted to be a part of her life. Initially he saw her every couple of weeks when she was newborn, dwindling to once a month until she was 4 months old. After making arangements to visit him ( lives 60 miles away ) when she was 5 months old, he wasn't in when I arrived! Later he explained to me on the phone this was because he 'couldn't handle seeing me'. Stupidly I forgave him and arranged to see him a couple of months later ( with me and baby travelling to HIM again )unbelievably he 'wasn't in' again. It dawned on me that I was never going to get the sort of father that I wanted or needed for my daughter, or that he was someone who was going to be around for her or had her best interests at heart... Well that was in Sept. last year, her 1st birthday and Xmas have come and gone with plenty of opportunity for him to make contact - not even a card. I've figured that he's bound to put in an appearance at some point in her life which I won't try to stop as I think she should decide for herself what she thinks of him, but basically I've learnt that it's up to him to make their relationship happen, I'm not going to put me or my daughter in ANY vunerable positions.
As to your other question of does it matter when they are so young if they see daddy or not, I'm not sure about 4 months but I know now my daughter is 16 months and can say Mummy, grandma, grandad etc. She hears the word 'daddy' a lot and can say it, but I 'm not sure if I should be showing her pictures of him and making him more 'real' to her, so if anyone's got any advice for me too, it would be much appreciated...

Anyway Tel, I suppose there is no right or wrong way, it's a bad situation but it doesn't help when they're making it ten times worse does it?! What makes me stronger is thinking how worse off my baby would be if I was still living with an idiot like that!

Thanks Lizzer - it's nice to know there are other single mums out there. Your point about showing your daughter photos of her father is quite valid but tricky . Common sense tells me whatever you do, it would be important to keep it consistent, but easier said than done, I realise, especially if contact depends on the father's whim. At the moment I'm still being (maybe naively) optimistic, for example, my little boy gets a kiss "from his Dad" too before bed. It is sad, though, isn't it, when you try to do what you think is the right thing and they act like they aren't bothered. I've sent photos to him, though. Sometimes I fear for the future, even though it is still early days. My ex had the gall to say to me that our son would no doubt want to go and live with him when he was old enough anyway (very mature of him) and also, get this, that he was going to grow up to be gay from living with his mum! Unbelievable. As far as I'm concerned he can be whatever he wants but it says it all really. Anyway, the first trip is booked and I'm prepared to do all I can to make OK so I'll let you know how it goes.

Incidentally, how did you deal with the other set of grandparents, or maybe that was never an issue. Aside from the fact that I had big mother in law issues anyway (this is the woman who told me that at 3 weeks my son was crying because a)he was bored and b) my breast milk wasn't good enough) she is insistent on being able to have long, quality time with him. I feel that at the risk of keeping everything sweet, I could lose my rag bigtime.

Hi Tel and Lizzer,

I was a single parent for seven years with my daughter. Her father and I parted 'amicably' when she was approx. two. I had great ideas about everything being civilised and him having an active part in her upbringing but I am afraid such optimism didn't last more than a month. He too decided that he couldn't handle seeing me. He saw her three times in the first year following our break up and once the year after. He then failed to contact her for six years! We had no idea where he was so there was very little I could do. I greatly resented this treatment of my daughter but however angry I became I was determined not to show it in front of her. Likewise I did not ignore his existance either as I was determined that she would not put him on a pedastal. We would talk about him and I would always acknowledge that he loved her but suggest when she asked why he didn't try to see her, that he simply was not good at showing her that he loved her(which of course is an understatement!) A term of endearment in our household, which means 'I love you but I am cross with you' developed for each of us and my little girl sometimes referred to her father in the same way; as an 'old baggage'. I think it helped both of us. She needed to express her mixed emotions and I didn't think it was appropriate to make up excuses for him. One thing I would say is don't take responsibility for your ex's bad behaviour towards your children, you cannot be both parents to them. Your children need to build realistic relationships with their fathers otherwise dissappointment and unhappiness is inevitable if either of these men prove to be as inconsiderate as they are being at the moment. (However, their behaviour now does not necessarily determine future behaviour. Maybe they need space to get used to the situation. A luxury, I know, but don't be too quick to jump to conclusions. Many parents without residency have an equal, responsible and creative input into their childrens lives.) Whether fathers or mothers some parents are good parents and some parents are not so good parents... unfortunately one only discovers which ones partner is after the birth of a child.

Fundamentally, my advise would be, be honest. Sometimes this is hard, and children certainly don't need to know the intimate details of a parents bad behaviour, but it will help both of you and make your mother/child relationship easier.

My daughters father reentered her life almost by accident, he made demands, saw her (with my blessing - it was what she wanted at ten) but within weeks the arrangements were missed or changed, often she was left waiting for him. When I objected to his treatment of her he became abusive to the point of threatening violence. It was heartbreaking. I decided to make a formal arrangement through my soliciter as I felt my daughter needed the reassurance of knowing that Daddy was expected at such and such a time on such and such a day. We haven't heard from him since! It has been extremely difficult for her. He lives in the same town as us. But despite being incrdibly loyal to her father my daughter has drawn her own conclusions based on his treatment of her. Children are not stupid and do not need the issue made more complicated than it already is. As for grand parents, of course they must have access but this too is about honesty and drawing boundaries, children need consistancy as well as security. Essentially it is the child who comes first whatever games are being played by other relations. I hope what I've said has firstly, made sense, and secondly I hope it helps. It is not easy being a parent, it's certainly not easy being a single parent but is is incredibly rewarding... good luck and best wishes.

Thanks for your message Winnie, it did make sense and it did to some part confirm my sneaking suspiscions of what may be in store for us, don't you reckon Tel? It's not going to be an easy path but I can only hope I handle the situation as well as you have done Winnie...
I'm glad you suggested being completely honest with the child and not to take responsibility for the father's actions. This a big point as when I look at my beautiful daughter and think of what he is missing out on and what sort of person he must be to do that, I want to wrap her up in cotton wool and tell her that no-one will ever hurt her, knowing that one day soon he may... It will be much harder to say 'look, your Dad loves you but he can't show it very well' like you did, but I'm sure now that is the way I'll go, thanks again for your wonderful advice...!

Tel, one word - ARGH!!! This is exactly the same treatment as I get from my ex, it's crazy and stupid ranting and it's purely for their own benefit,thankfully you don't seem to have been sucked in by it!
Anyhow, on to your point about the dreaded grandparents! There is only his Mum around and she chooses to live her life in ways that I totally don't agree with. I won't go into details but it's not a 'healthy' lifestyle of any description, mentally or physically. Therefore I'm really troubled by the approach I should take, at the moment it is generally me who goes to see her (although have a fantastic relationship with her daughter which is mainly the reason I go), about every 6 weeks or so. At this age it's fine but I really can't see it being the 'quality time' type relationship your's is wanting. In some ways this is easier for me because I know she'll never be the type to take her away for days out or holidays (least I hope not! ). But my daughter has my Mum to do those things with her ( I'm living with her at the moment so they have a fantastic bond, my Mum was even there at the birth! ) I really don't know what to suggest if she's going to get all defensive and 'it's our family too' about it all. She sounds great fun though - not!! What a witch suggesting your milk wasn't good enough - I know, why not keep breastfeeding til he's 5 then she'll never get her claws on him!! Actually that's not a bad plan, well that's what you could TELL her anyway, ha ha!!
Well, good luck with your trip, when you going? Do try to keep strong and don't take any c**p from him!

Thanks Winnie - and Lizzer - just reading your messages made me feel much better about the whole thing, because I now feel more than ever that I must continue doing what I feel is right. I agree that it is important not to make excuses for the father, and I know it is early days yet,you're right Winnie, but I guess that wanting to comes from our own protectiveness towards our children. Another thing my ex said at the time of break up was that he wanted to pay for our son to go to a private school, nice idea, yet while he and I are on income support, I don't think so....The worst thing about that is his idea of how he thinks our son should be brought up in his absence.

Looking back I think I knew he was going to be a s**t because I remember at about five months pregnant he told me if there was anything wrong with the baby I could get rid of it, which I ignored, but will never forget. The pregnancy, while unplanned, was always my problem, my responsibility. He only wanted the nice bits (eg my huge pregnant boobs and private school fantasies as above). I too have thought about somehow formalising the arrangement, although it might not be a success as your experience proves.
Anyway, Winnie, your words certainly have helped and I wish you and your daughter the best too.

Lizzer - I'm living with my parents too, temporarily, and my son has my parents to do the quality time thing with. The thing with the other grandma and quality time is that yes, it would be lovely for my son to spend time with her, but (and I feel bad saying this) I couldn't hack observing the quality time, if you know what I mean. She is dying to get her hands on him, but I do have a reasonable excuse in that they too live abroad. Incidentally, she also does a nice line in horrendous presents (excuse me while I bitch some more) so at least I won't have the dilemma of whether to present my son in the tasteful clothes that grandma bought. All this makes me feel very protective too, which is OK for now, but as Winnie says they are going to find out their own way sooner or later.
The first visit is the beginning of June and I have a suspicion that MIL may coincide a visit at the same time (grit teeth and be STRONG), but I am going to insist that we are not all there together simultaneously - I have this awful image of my son in the middle with me smiling through my teeth hovering in the background, while the "rejected family" decide they hate me even more!. Must go - teatime.

Just had another thought - has mumsnet reached any single dads yet? If so, what's it like from their side of the fence?

Tel, this is getting spooky - horrendous presents, mmmm... I know all about those. Do you think they do it on purpose just to annoy or that they really don't have any taste what-so-ever!! Oh and your point about ex wanting all the 'nice bits' of pregnancy but leaving the important bits out, mine said straight from the start that there was no way he'd even think about being in the delivery room as he didn't want to see me looking so ugly! When you look back you could cry, but lets give ourselves a pat on the back for getting out when we did, at least our children won't have to put up with such behaviour 24/7. I think my 16month old is more mature than him already! Oh and while I'm on the rant, yeah stupid sayings like 'I'll pay for everything though' - Oh yeah? With what exactly? Why oh why do they bother...?Tel, you must let me know if in a couple of months he goes and buys your son some expensive designer outfit which cost the earth ( practical shade of white, of course ) and he expects you to be forever grateful for cos he's blown all his money on it - and all you want to say is, 'mmm.. thanks but 10 new vests, 5 pairs of socks, a jumbo box of nappies and a months supply of food would have been more heplful, fool!' If he does then maybe they were cloned at birth or something?!! Okay, rant over, I feel cool calm and collected once again... Great advice from Winnie wasn't it? I really hope I can remain as strong.
By the way Tel, I know my confidence took a beating after breaking up, having a baby etc. and what I found really worthwhile is taking a bit of 'me' time - everyone needs it- I joined a gym with a creche (look for cheap deals if you are on benefits like me) and I've started a voluntary job just one afternoon a week for the nspcc (which will look good on my cv plus I really enjoy it) and I've signed up to start a open uni degree course next Feb (which you can get help with, money wise.) All of this is making me feel much more like a worthwhile person and not the trampled doormat I was 18 months ago which I'm sure must benefit my daughter... It took me a year to get to this though so don't rush, enjoy your beautiful baby son as much as possible before he turns into whirlwind, bath-dodging, nose-picking, soil-eating toddler!!! ( still as beautiful though! )

My situation is different. I am dating my babies father but my son and I only see him once every 2 weeks. The last time I saw him was about 6wks ago. When he comes down he mostly sleeps. My son is now 5mths old and his father hasn't bought him anything or given me any money for him (except £10). He doesn't call or send a text message. The only way I can speak to him is when I call him and then he normally tells me he has no credit in his phone or he has things he needs to sort out first. I love him very much but I feel as I am a single parent as I do everything for my son. I'm currently living at home with my family and he is living with his parents and they don't know that he has a son,as he is only 18 and I'm 21. He says that if I get my own place then he will change and come live with us. I would be grateful if anyone can give me any advice on what to do as I am thinking of ending my relationship and being a single mum.

Hi,

I'm also a veteran 2-over single mum, my first 2 children are from a previous relationship and the second 2 children are from my ex-husband. Both ex-es are monumentally selfish, although the first ex does at least contribute financially to the upbringing of the first 2 children. Other than that he seems to think he only has rights without any obligations and does everything possible to contradict the upbringing I am trying to give them, i.e: he will quite happily stuff them with sweets and biscuits when they stay with him, let them watch utterly unsuitable things on tv, etc., etc.

My ex-husband, the father of the second 2 children
shows absolutely no interest whatsoever, which is probably a good thing as he is a violent alcoholic. He does not contribute in any way whatsoever, although I do believe that he has finally found employment, even though I will be paying off the bills he ran up during our marriage for the next 5 years or so.

My first 2 children say "Dad" to their father but all the children called my ex-husband by his first name. Neither father has ever really behaved in a "Daddy-like" fashion, so actually in retrospect I am quite glad that my ex-husband was never referred to as "Dad", I think it would only have made a difficult situation even harder for the children with regard to the break-up and the violence which preceeded it.

Aaliyah, I did do a message back to you last week but had problems getting it posted. Reading your message, I really felt for you, and like Batters, my first thought was that it sounds like you are already a single mum. Your situation seems totally unacceptable at the moment, and I feel that much of it is maybe caused by what your boyfriend and his family want, not you. Why don't his family know? I know he is young, but eighteen is not that young. Perhaps he simply cannot handle the responsibility (know all about that one!) but you have one baby already....You're lucky you have your family. Batters is right - see a solicitor, I think you're entitled to up to two hours advice for free under the legal aid scheme. I saw one and am glad I did, it helped clarify things. I know it is hard to be practical and perhaps feel you are being mean, but the most important thing is you and your baby right now. Good luck.

Aaliyah
I think it can be harder being a single parent in your situation than in many others. You can never be sure what is coming next or where you stand. It sounds as though you really need to try and clarify the situation with your boyfriend. You may love him very much and this may lead you to be very accomodating, but he is also your baby's father. Ideally, of course, he needs to be a stable presence in your child's life and he needs to understand how important this is and how deeply your child will feel it if he continually comes and goes on a very irregular basis. Yes, check up on your legal rights. As I understand it unless you are married or have signed a Parental Responsibilty Agreement he has no rights to access but is financially responsible.
Good luck