Why must boys be boys? Wise advice from mums of boys needed ...

[redhotredhead]

I have twin 5 year old boys. And several friends with boys same age. Why do they all come out of school every afternoon and immediately go completely bonkers in the playground? Tearing around playing really rough tag games, kicking each other, shoving each other over? Are 2 playtimes and a lunchtime at school really not enough physcial exercise in a day? Is is just testosterone? Is it just that I as a woman don't "get" them? How should we deal with them?

My friends was hauled over the coals today by teacher of her DS (aged 5) because he had punched 1 boy, bloodied another one's nose and kicked a third in the nativity rehearsal, all apparently unprovoked. She's a lovely woman, he seems a nice kid most of the time - WHY DO THEY DO THIS STUFF?!

Oh nooka how upsetting if Biddolph made it up as I really liked what he has to say. If not true it throws the rest of his book into question too. I must ask my brother, he is a paediatrician and get his pov.

I've read another article about that woman's views, and think whilst some of it might be right, a lot of it is hopelessly outdated. If there was a time of genderless childhood it was a long time ago (and a lot of it was great) now we are bringing up our children in a ridiculously pink and girly, with sexual innuendo for toddlers for our daughters, and butch, khaki and aggression for our boys. I think the pendulum has swung way back the other way. I was brought up in the 70s and enjoyed being a tomboy. Most of my children's teachers are my age or younger. The people with the Greenham Common views taught then, they are all retired now.

And girls enjoy climbing trees too!

My two boys aren't school age yet, but I can imagine that starting school must be absolutely exhausting for children, and I do think that boys find it harder to sit still for long periods than girls seem to, so I imagine the post-school meltdown is almost certainly connected to that - I'm sure I'd feel the same.

I wish they could all climb trees and run around aimlessly until they were about 7.

I also agree wholeheartedly with desiderata re the feminization of education. One of the things that I like best about my boys' nursery is that the nursery teacher is a man.

Well this is my theory. (And I have just made it up).

Apparently, there are two bits of the brain. There is the primitive bit of the brain (get food, run away from saber tooth tiger etc) and there is the thinking part of the brain, (frontal cortex maybe?) that deals with things like understanding what is going on in Spooks.

The thinking part of the brain works hard all day at school, and by the end of the day it is completely exhausted. I think (or could have made it up) that the frontal cortex in boys develops more slowly than in girls. The poor little boys just revert to hunting mammoth behaviour. This isn't great when they are surrounded by traffic on the walk home.

I agree with hecate. this boys behaviour is a problem and beyond the norms of boys will be boys. punching and blooding noses is a real problem and needs to be sorted out sharpish.
I've got 2, 7+9 and pretty much the same pattern happens every year, Start new school year Sept, by Xmas they are knackered and behaviour goes downhill, only difference is now they're older I get attempted cheekiness and answering back instead. I am pretty strict really, I've got very definite boundaries and that is the only solution imo. It actually makes life quite easy, boys are simple things as someone said.

I do think the energy can boil over sometimes but really they (kids, not just boys) need to be taught hw to control that; this is doubly true at Christmas when it all gets far too exciting.That's a great gift to give any chld though regardless of gender.

They don't all come out and go bonkers either; ds3 is pretty shatterd as is ds2, however ds1 is like a tightly wound spring (saying that he doesn't like crowds- asd)

ultimately I do think boys brains tend to need a good run after school: the notion they all hit takes it too far. there are pushy boys and sensitive boys. The trick is to learn who they are and work with that rather than some notion based on- what?

Another skill of course is to lrearn what is a playfight and what not, because blimey if that hasn't caused a few disputes in the past (not me bit Other Mothers)

(I have 4 by the way, though 2 are sn so don't quite fit the usual ideas)

"My friends was hauled over the coals today by teacher of her DS (aged 5) because he had punched 1 boy, bloodied another one's nose and kicked a third in the nativity rehearsal"

Your friend may have felt that she was hauled over the coals, but hopefully she wasn't.

I don't think this kind of behaviour is just about not having firm boundaries - its more likely to be about having some problem coping with school (presumably this 5 year old is in his first term at reception). I'm all for boundaries, but 5 year olds don't just behave like this out of 'badness'. How did he get to do all this in the space of one nativity rehearsal. Unless he was Jack Bauer, wouldn't they have been able to take him somewhere to calm down after the first offense?

Oh I like that Palmer woman. I dont normally do parenting books but have Bidulph and will get hers.

Looking around there are some interesting debates out there as to whether higher levels of testosterone are actually caused by aggressive behaviour, rather than the other way around. Personally I think Biddolphs ideas about setting boundaries etc are just as applicable to girls. I think it is a little strange to suggest in a time when (on the whole) fathers are more involved than ever before that boys behavioural problems are caused by a lack of involved fathers. Yes there are kids growing up with poor role models, but these are often kids who are challenged in many ways (mainly by the effects of poverty).

Madame Platypus is totally right, quite how the situation at school ended in 3 issues is pretty poor. He should have been taken off to do something else.
It is about boundaries though, assuming this dc is "NT" starting school is about learning acceptable behaviour, boundaries and controlling, tempers,tantrums etc. The school should be helping with this and letting the mum know, what the issues are and how they are dealing with them. Is he yr R or yr 1?

I've always gone with the idea thats theres a time and a place for the 'wilder' behaviour but that these days we dont tend to provide enough time or places for it.

My sons would drive me mad if I drove them home. I have to walk ovia the woods and climb trees with them and let off steam so that I can go home and cook dinner without them then going stircrazy. ( I dont drive anyway so that is an advantage)

Teaching, especially early years teaching has always been dominated by women (partly because this was one of the very few permitted careers for women). Male nursery and primary school teachers have always been very unusual. Strangely it is still not uncommon for the only male teacher in a primary school to be the headmaster...

My son is currently being taught by a man, and I think that's great, and I have a few male friends that are primary school teachers. I think it would be better if there was more of a mix. However I have not noticed any great difference in my son's experience with this chap compared with the women who taught him before.

btw girls educational attainments had already started to improve prior to the introduction of so called "girl friendly" practices, and boys performances haven't actually dropped, just the girls have overtaken them.

one of the reasons I moved my boys from a little primary was that it was totally female dominated. They are now at a large junior with a male head, male deputy and 1/2 male teachers. It has made such a difference! They are loving school, have improved a million times and ds2 loves his male teacher. It's a terrible shame there aren't more males at primary level. I assume this is a salary issue?

I have mixed feelings about this. I think some of the 'biology' explanation is utter baloney, conveniently packaged because we like to make sense of apparent differences. The feminization of schools argument works for me because this means girls are being rewarded by seeing things that fit 'girlish' behaviour rewarded - both directly by praise (because that is how schools are supposed to be), and by teachers modelling it.

Meanwhile, both are being told that vigorous, expansive, physical behaviour (like many toddlers use and some boys) is not acceptable in a school context. When girls get told they fit in and boys get told they don't, even if not explicitly, then it has an impact.

I also think some of it is personality. My eldest is a loony; my second child only really kicks off if he's ill or very tired.

On the other hand, I have three boys. If they don't get run out for at least an hour a day, and fed at least every three hours, they are awful . Boys are like dogs is right (again).

My daughter needs as much fresh air and exercise as my son. She needs more encouragement to do it though, because girls are still encouraged from a very young age to be quiet to be "good". My daughter when unsupervised is much more likely to hit ds than the other way around , and they both wrestle a lot, although I have never seen her do this with a girl. I am not saying that girls and boys are the same, but we do need to think about how much it is society pushing them that way because of the way we expect boys and girls to tick.