Should parents be shown 'respect' by children?.. discuss

[unicorn]

I only pose this question having had various experiences recently with friends of dd (5-6 yrs) who IMO have been extremely rude.

We oldun's (me and dh) have just been chatting, and realised that we would have never in a million years spoken to other adults the way some of these kids do when we were kids.
For eg....
I would never have called mums by their first names, nor asked 'what's in your bag have you any sweets or drinks for us?' (then... why not?!!!)

I just feel that somehow kids have too much power, and too little respect for authority, but maybe it's just a generational thing, and our parents said similar?

I'm very interested to know what you all think.

I only have a one year old so never been in this position but as a teacher, I must say there is a general lack of manners these days. I have been in the classroom for 11 years and when I started, you always got a few cheeky kids, mostly the loveable rogue type who knew where to draw the line, a few nutters too. But now there is a growing proportion who stare blankly when picked up on low level things. It's very frustrating and very sad. I hesitate to say it but meeting parents on parents evening often shows the root of the problem.
To answer the question though, I have to say I'm very old-fashioned and think everyone deserves respect, you should not "earn it" - you get it by being polite, civil and human. You get a lot further in life by smiling politely even if you want to punch someone in the chops.

janh they are included and i think teaching turn-taking is important. very often the younger one just sits in his buggy and doesn't want to talk, he just doesn't want anyone else to either...

I agree WK. Respect has to be mutual. I try to speak respectfully to my children, and to apologise when I fail (at least once a day! )

I also try and acknowledge their opinion, even when I'm going to lay the law down. So "I know you want sweeties, Darling, and I'm so sorry you can't have them because Mummy doesn't want you to". Somehow, that seems to make it better for them - just the acknowledgement of their feelings, even if they're going to be overruled. (I'm probably talking a load of American parentspeak bollocks, but hey, it works for me!)

i also think a lot of parents need to show a bit more respect for their children too...it works both ways

Oh and agree that the starting point for all relationships should be an assumption that the other person is deserving of respect unless they show their behaviour indicates otherwise. So I expect my children to treat me (and other adults and children) with respect as well.

rowlers- that's I wonderered how teachers were finding it...
again harking back to the olden days!(note not necessarily good!)we did have a bit of fear in us, and teachers had clout (literally!!)

Of course I am not advocating that but it must be very exhausting to teach kids, when their parents aren't even teaching them respect etc!!

but is it the parents... or 'society'!!!!??!!!

When I was young, children really respected and in a way 'feared' grown ups. Alot of changes have come about since then that gives more power to children and have taken alot of it away from adults, although in some ways this is a good thing ie. smaking laws and children more able to speak out about abuse etc, children have more of a voice today, but I feel it's taken away respect from parents/teachers.

I feel parents today give too much power to their children and I know families where the children seem to be the ones ruling, how can respect be instilled in a situation like this!

I think that we're talking about 2 things here: respect and politeness.

Respect is earned usually, but in the case of young children i don't think it applies really.

Politeness is a different thing and is definitely taught. I used to have to teach English politeness to my foreign students - people in other countries don't say "please" "thank you" etc nearly as much as we do. As for whetehr it has declined - i'm not sure. I don't think i would have noticed rudeness in other children as much when I was a child as I would now (seem to recall my gran saying one of my friends was rude but not knowing why)

caligula - totally agree, I always wanted my parents just to acknowledge that I disagreed with them and that it was ok for me to think I was right but they had made their decision, that would have been fine by me. But it was the way I couldn't have an opinion different to theirs because I'd automatically be wrong.

On the manners front, a conversation from a class I covered this afternoon.

'He is a queer'
'gay boy'
'X likes the taste of cum in his mouth'

In class, in front of me, in lesson time. Wouldn't have happened when I was in school

Also I still never know what to call friends' parents. Some told me to use their first names years ago, others didn't. Both Mrs X and the first name sound weird to me when it's a friend's parent, unless I've called them by their first name since childhood.

Children (generalisation I know) seem to know all about their rights but nothing of their responsibilities (which I class as being "good"!)
My DP's little sister, brought up be "decent folk" is always telling me how little respect she has for her teachers - when she relates the stories of how terrible her teachers treat her, she just strikes me as a self-obsessed madam. And I tell her that cos I can. She doesn't like it but I think deep down she knows I'm right. She'll grow up but I feel sorry for any adult she has contact with until then.
I do believe her parents have contributed directly to her attitude - her father is always telling me how bad her teachers are - she obviously tells him the stories and he believes her above the teacher. Not saying teachers are always right, but it's a good starting point. When I ask him if he has ever witnessed any "incidents" he clearly struggles to argue his point.

Rowlers - you see, that's the thing. teachers were always right when we were young. They could never be sacked and some got away with all sorts of things (like, in my school, calling students numbers instead of names or punishing a boy who had poked someone with a pencil by getting the whole class to sharpen their pencils and do it to him).

Like so many things, we as a society did something about it but went too far (in some ways). Children are encouraged to think a lot more now, etc etc.

So would you/should you/could you correct another person's child?

Again I think parents are too fearful about children these days, they hardly dare speak to them.

For eg.. a pal's dd (5) walked from a swimming pool all the way home (about a mile)- busy road etc... as she (wrongly) thought her mum had left without her.

NOBODY.. stopped to ask this crying child what was the matter etc...

I'm fairly sure that wouldn't have happened years ago.

I correct children, and I expect others to correct mine. If for no other reason I think that it is a good idea that children understand that it isn't just their parents having a go at them, but rather there is a general standard of behaviour that is expected of them.

maybe I am just turning into a blue rinser(!!!)

get me my Conservative Mothers Institute membership NOW!!!

I think people are afraid that they will be taken for paedophiles or interfering do-gooders if they intervene in a situation like that. (But I still would.)

And yes, I've got no hesitation in prompting a please and thank you from DS's playmates. They can dispense with the manners in their homes, but when they're at Caligula Junior's house, they have to say please and thank you, because that's how it's done here!

Shall we start an Old Farts Club?

Also agree about the "generalised standard of behaviour" arguement - it's not just mad Mummy, everyone expects you to say please and thank you. It's a useful re-inforcement. I'd hope that other parents would re-inforce me as well.

I have no hesitation in telling dd "you don't speak to an adult in that way" when she acts in a demanding or belligerent manner. And, while I would certainly be cautious and gentle in directing/reprimanding a friend's child, I also wouldn't let something go if it was adversely affecting dd in a serious way.

About a month ago we were at the playground, and a boy of about 8 was pushing. I told him he needed to wait his turn, and he began to argue with me. I looked at him hard, and I politely but firmly delivered the "don't speak to an adult in that way, now please do what I asked" line, and he stopped dead in his tracks. Clearly he thought it was OK to argue with an adult. Sometimes I think we as adults have to let children know where the line is, and when they've crossed it....

I have also asked children to put litter in bins in play parks. They tend to look at you as if you are quite mad, but so far none have refused.

TBQH Caligula I have noticed many parents not picking up on please/thankyou, whereas I often find myself coming across like an old repetitive bore.

I do think there are very different ways of parenting these days, whereas, it did seem simpler in the past.

And I think that while it is reasonable to treat children with respect it is crazy to treat them as equals. They are children and we are the adults. There are times (lots of them) when we know best! And we don't do them any favours if we forget this.

The discussion about school meals being a classic case. If you give them a choice they lack the maturity to make a good one, so don't give them a choice.

although I spose I have no idea of the past... I was a child!!!!

maybe it was fraught with worries, except my mum seems to give the impression that it was easier.

I think there was more of a "trade union" of adults, who backed each other up. There simply weren't as many options as now. There was one correct way to behave, and that was it. Whereas now there are many. Advantages and disadvantages to each.

With the choice thing, I think you can give kids choices within a set parameter; so you can have a choice of good healthy food, not just one meal; or you can have a choice between doing your homework now, during Sergeant Stripes or afterwards, during Clifford the Big Red Dog. (The choice of not doing it at all isn't available.) All of the choices are pre-determined by those most qualified to make them (ie the adults), but the kids are left with some self-determination and also an opportunity to make a choice and take responsibility for its consequences. (And obviously the choices can get more varied and complex as they get older.)