Should parents be shown 'respect' by children?.. discuss

[unicorn]

I only pose this question having had various experiences recently with friends of dd (5-6 yrs) who IMO have been extremely rude.

We oldun's (me and dh) have just been chatting, and realised that we would have never in a million years spoken to other adults the way some of these kids do when we were kids.
For eg....
I would never have called mums by their first names, nor asked 'what's in your bag have you any sweets or drinks for us?' (then... why not?!!!)

I just feel that somehow kids have too much power, and too little respect for authority, but maybe it's just a generational thing, and our parents said similar?

I'm very interested to know what you all think.

[happymerryberries]

I agree. We always run the 'you can wear theis coat or this coat' line but some coat has to be worn.

Trouble is that some kids don't seem to be given the hard word over anything. Their parents seem to abrogate responsibility because they don't want the falling out that will happen when they set a boundary. So the fall out happens in school. And then the parents will refuse to let the child have the consequences of their actions, and will get them out of detentions, whatever.

While an out an out dictatorship isn't idea, neither is having to argue with 5 girls that 'yes you do have to tie back your hair because we are going to use bunsen burners' There is a time and a place for the benign dictatorship, I think

[CarrieG]

I think kids can be quite disconcertingly sharp about deciding whether adults do or do not deserve respect...for example I heard a girl say today (when leaving my lesson) - 'Oh no, we've got Mrs X next - I hate her, she can't keep order & then she screams at us all & puts us all in detention'.

Well, fair comment - the poor woman's a shockingly poor disciplinarian, tends to get flustered & then go off like Krakatoa. BUT she does know her subject - her top sets love her. Unfortunately, because so many of our students decide whether to give or withhold respect on a basis of whether or not they can wind a particular teacher up/reduce her to tears, a lot of the classes she teaches are a shambles.

If we had a general presumption of 'respect' towards parents/teachers/adults generally, she might have a fighting chance...

[Caligula]

Let the little blighters set their hair on fire! That'll learn 'em the consequences of their choice!

(Oh yes, but then you'll get sued, won't you, because it'll be your fault, even though it was their choice...)

I think problems arise where it is not clear whether there is a democracy or a benign dictatorship. And unfortunately, we live in a society which sometimes wants one and sometimes wants the other, and so for children who are growing up and testing boundaries, it's very difficult to understand when one system is more appropriate than the other. Which is obviously very frustrating and time-wasting, because you have to spend endless time telling them why the benign dictatorship rule applies here, rather than the happy clappy democracy. It was easier when there was no ambiguity (but not necessarily better - swings and roundabouts again).

It's much easier with younger kids of course, because there's no doubt about the benign dictatorship. (Mostly. Sadly, only mostly!)

[happymerryberries]

And what about the now adults who have no idea how to behave? Isn't it awful that hospitals have to outline 'zero tolerence' to keep their staff safe, or that train guards get spat at and shouted at (went to London on the weekend and saw posters about this which just came to mind). Why should people have to deal with rudeness and threats at work? Why is it acceptable?

[bobbybob]

My mum still calls all the neighbours Mrs xxx and Mrs yyy just like she did when we were kids, so that might be generational (she's only in her mid fifties though). I would call our neighbours Jack and Sally, so it's no surprise when Bob does.

I would probably have asked at 5 or 6 if they had drink or sweets sometimes, but would have been told that was cheeky.

Our Doctor leaves messages to say "It's Dave here, I have your test results". I still make Bob call him Dr xxxx though. I am always telling him he worked hard to be a Dr and should use the title.

I have to work hard to remember to model good behaviour, saying pardon, please and thank you every time. Which leads me to believe that manners had already started to slip generally when I was a child.

[QueenEagle]

I haven't read all this thread but here's my opinion:

When I was a kid I had to say Mrs or Mr so and so but would think it a bit odd if my dd's friends called me anything other than my first name. (I'm sure they call me all sorts behind my back tho lol).

I use please and thank you to my kids and expect them to use the same.

If my kids have been to friends/grandparents houses I expect them to thank them for tea or for having them. I even say thanks for the tea to my mate as I leave - it's just habit I guess.

I expect my dd and her friends to make eye contact and speak without mumbling at the floor.

When I was young I had respect for teachers, police and authority in general. Hopefully my kids have that same respect to a point and I'd like them to possess the ability and confidence to question authority without being disrespectful if it was called for.

[unicorn]

cheers all... lots of interesting thoughts.

I do think that childhood is very different these days, and am quite sad for kids really...
equally I think it makes parenting a much harder job than years gone by (thus the 'parenting' industry that has built up)

I know there is no real answer, but I would like to see kids with a bit of respect (not fear) for adults.

I would also like to see a parental consensus, so that kids know right and wrong - and understand the consequences.

Well I can dream can't I?

[Tortington]

i have heard on more than one occasion mothers saying to me things like " i was late for school today becuase dd just wouldn't leave the house in the clothes i had ironed her, so she picked some more and i had to iron them"
what? i think not. my kids didn't have a choice of clothes to wear until they were about 10 - then they learned to use the washing machine & iron if they wanted to fart about. but i certainly do not "pander"

i help dh sometimes with a youth club kids from 7 -19 and no one gets anything from tuck without a please or a thank you. As they know it is expected we get the most hated and most wanted by the police kids saying ever so sweetly " please may i" not ta, thanks, no grunts, but "please may i" always makes me smile

politeness, good manners, good table manners is not only teaching them the right thing but is educating them to integrate more smoothly into society.

on the issue of addressing other grown ups not known to you - when i phone other parents houses to make sure it is actually alright for my kids to go for tea, and they have actually been informed of this fact and agreed to it ( which is only good manners) i find i address them thus " hello Daniels mum, i was just making sure..."

on the issue of correcting another child - yes i would and have. i find that a child over the age of 6 interupting a conversation plain rude. and i detest more than anything the mothers who break mid conversation quite rudely to speak to their children therefore reinforcing that they did the right thing.
i have informed my kids on many occasions that this house is a dictatorship. there is no democracy here - and if i get "ahhhhhhh but why?" from a 12 year old i refuse to go into a pseudo liberal conversation with a child over why - "because i said so" is good enough on most occasions.

[happymerryberries]

Custy, you are, and always have been my hero!

[tatt]

my children's friends generally ask what they should call me and I tell them my first name. I've been asked if they can call me mum quite often If they feel more comfortable with that its fine by me but I'd never tell their mums they did it. I do expect good manners from them. They usually say thanks for having me and can I leave the table at meals.

When it comes to asking for sweets/ chocolate cake I know my little horrors get their friends to ask because they know there is more chance I will say yes to them. Still say no to the sweets and the cake is only after meals. I'm also beginning to tell the oldest its time she learnt to iron her own clothes.

Wouldn't go as far as custy witht he dictatorship but I tell the children when they pay for things they will have more choice.

I also feel that we need to respect children more, though - like listening to their view on something, even when its poorly expressed. So I'd like to see childrens councils in every school.

[tigermoth]

I do think the children show less respect for adults nowadays, and believe our child centered society has lots to do with it. When I was a 10 year old in the late 60s, we did not have:

A leisure industry devoted to kids, ( ok there were parks and zoos and Madame Tussauds, but no legoland, no mcdonalds etc and I bet the Seience Museum was a lot less hands on) I cannot remember my parents ever reading articles about kid's holiday activities, and I never felt it was my right to go to Disneyland becuase all my friends had gone.

Kids TV advertising - food, toys - enough said

Kids Tv channels showing cartoons almost 24/7 - we got our daily hour or so of TV programmes and that was it!

Kids media - the hoo ha surrounding Harry Potter, adults and kids both enjoying the same books and filml like star wars and lord of the rings - by bringings adults and kids together the line between adult and child is blurred.

I think there is so much to reinforce a child's feeling of importance in the world, and in lots of ways, that's a good thing, but I also think it chips away at feelings of respect. Up to individual parents to set that right of course!

[Bozza]

I think that young children do need to be taught manners and respect. My DS knows that he will not get things without saying please and then also has to say thank you. He's just 4 and most of the time he is very good at this but sometimes he has bad days. I will ask what sort of juice he would like and if he replies 'apple' I just look at him and withhold until he tries harder. I also do not allow him to leave the table until everyone has finished their meal. Always expect him to say thank you after birthday parties, meals at friends etc. I also insist on please and thank you from his friends as others have suggested.

We were at the local playground and DS wanted to go on the slide but their was an older boy (maybe 8) sat at the top eating one of those long ice pop things and he just continued to sit there when DS climbed the slide and so DS said "that boy is still there" and I replied "just say excuse me to him and he will move" and gave him a look and he reluctantly went down the slide but he was looking daggers at me the whole time which I thought was fairly disrespectful. (And he left the slide all sticky).

[flamesparrow]

I've only read bits of the thread , but I am a big believer in manners and respect. I guess it was just drummed into me as a child, all the things like don't interrupt (especially when someone is trying to talk on the phone), don't ask for friends to stay in front of said friend etc, please, thankyou.

What children call me - my first name is fine. I'm occasionally an Auntie, but not often. Miss/Mrs would drive me nuts... I think thats just cos I've never accepted that I turned into a grownup!!!

My little lady gets told everyone is Auntie/Uncle something - dunno why!!!

Respect does need to be two way though - how can you teach a child to respect you, if you don't show them the same courtesy?

[bakedpotato]

Any child is the product of its parents. It is boring to drum the 'please' and 'thankyou' reflex into a very small child, and a lot of people don't want to spend the little home time they share with their kids wrangling over manners. Plus, I think plenty of parents now still see themselves as being 'kids' too, and hate the idea of laying down the law as our parents did (last w/e, we saw a groovy family at a restaurant, the dad and the boy were both in Duffer sweatshirts and jeans and sneakers, the mum and the girl both in pink hoodies... it was hilarious).
Parenting seems to be a sort of popularity contest: parents want children to be happy and have fun when they're all together, it's less stressful that way, plus it means the child prefers the parents' company to being in childcare, so there seems to be a lot of giving in at moments when really parents should be putting feet down.
[heads off to ride the Stannah]

[Bozza]

bp I realise I had done that by accident with me and DD. I'd got jeans and a pink top on. Then I dressed DD in some of DS's old denim dungarees, but to prove she was a girl but a pink top underneath.

[Bozza]

put not but

[bakedpotato]

i do it with DD too (esp stripy tights/socks and red mary-janes)

[alux]

I don't consider myself an old bird yet but the longer I teach the more I believe that the manners the children bring from home is what they use at school. Teachers can only reinforce good manners or divert bad ones. I have serious doubts that we can instil good manners - just coerce them into behaving appropriately.

On Monday I told a chatty lad (15yr old) to leave the room after he did not follow 2 previous instructions. He stood up and barked FOR WHAT! I asked if he spoke to his mother that way. He searched for a reply for 3 seconds before he said no! So I said good, what makes it okay to speak to me that way?

Then I said, let's start again... Get out of the room. Left this time.

PS: If they say Yes, they speak to mum that way I point out that I am not their mum so try again. Can't lose. Heh, heh.

[alux]

Oh, in the Caribbean, all kids call men and women Mr. and Miss So and So., using the first name. Like "Miss Alice" even if she is married. I like it very much and seems a happy medium between the formal 'Mrs. Smith' and the familiar 'Alice'.

[Bugsy2]

Interesting question Unicorn & one I ponder quite frequently. I have two children: ds is 5 and dd is nearly 3 and I think I am fairly hot about manners. I loathe rudeness in adults or children and I think that as parents we have a responsibility to ensure our little monsters become passable adults.
However, respect, is a struggle. I am not sure if my children respect me. When we are rolling around the floor trying to work out who has the most stinky farts, I do wonder if this is a good way to engender respect!!!! I am fairly sure that they know that I rule the roost, so to speak - but does that mean they respect me?

[WideWebWitch]

Haven't read whole thread (want to later) but
don't mind being called by my first name! Wouldn't occur to me to be called anything else
Do expect please and thnak you of my kids and other children and correct them if it's not forthcoming
Tell mine what's not acceptable (i.e. don't interrupt, go into bags etc)
I have a benign dictatorship in my house.

[soapbox]

I think a godd place to start on the whole respect thing would be for adults to respect other adults!

How on earth can we expect our children to bahave in a respectful way if we don't behave that way ourselves!

I commented last night on a thread on MN when someone called someone an 'arsehole' just because they disagreed with their POV! This pervades our whole society from bargy people in the street to Fing and blinding in an agressive manner.

I've watched a couple of child rearing programs recently on TV where the behaviour of the parents and children towards each other made my hair stand on end! How on earth can we expect these children to grow up to be respectful people?

I expect my children to be polite and mannerable at all times (don't hold with teachers getting special treatment - I expect mine to be polite with all adults and importantly with other children)! My DD made a snide comment about another girl in her class and I immediately pulled her up and got her to think through how she would have felt if that comment was directed at her!

I'm no paragon of virtue - I have terse thoughts at times, but I keep them to myself - don't go shouting them out for all and sundry to share. Can't bear the idea of making a spectacle of myself!

[happymerryberries]

Well, since the person had basicaly infered that I was a bad teacher and later told me that I didn't want to teach science to children strugeling with basic literacy because it was 'too hard' (in spite of my explanations to the contrary, if felt it was 'appropriate' Howvere I never swear in front of any children, be they mine or those I teach.

She also made some quite snide comments about a class I teach.

So quite honestly I was reasonably restrained.

She has effectivly called me a lier and infered that probelms I has with a very difficult class were due to 'teacher control probelms'. A wonderful insite, given that she has never seen me, or that class.

She later went on to say that she haddent bothered to read my posts but commented on them anyway.

But hay ho. I don't realy care what you think of me.

[happymerryberries]

Oh and the fing and blinding was caused by my considerable anger at the way governemnt (this one and the last) have undercut the education of the children of this country, with the greatest impact being on those children with the most need. And I make no appology for that at all

[soapbox]

HMB - the effing and blinding wasn't aimed at you at all - I eff and blind with teh best of them on here but I wouldn't do it in the street sceaming at people like a woman I saw in upper steet market yesterday!

I really didn't mean to drag up that thread again and the why's or wherefore's just that to me calling someone an areshole is an example of the kind of aggressive responses that seem to be coming the norm in todays society. Of course every one will always justify why they react this way from the 'well they cut me up on the roundabout' to the 'she gave me the evil eye' (the latter from a child at my DD's ballet as she flew at another child in the waiting room and started slapping her around the head

I'm just not sure where it all leads in the long term. It certainly isn't providing our children with the kind of examples of behaviour that they deserve. How can we expect our children to be better than we are when we are their role models?