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dp smacked our toddler!

19 replies

mum2toby · 12/03/2003 11:06

I realise this is extremely controversial, but here goes.

I was smacked (on the bum and legs)as a child and I don't think it ever did me any harm. However, it was always my mother that smacked us and I had NO respect for her as a child and teenager and smacking me didn't deter me from misbehaving in the slightest!! My Dad just had to shout my name and I stopped misbehaving immediately!!

And for this reason, I decided and discussed it with dp whilst I was pg that we would not smack our child. We would use other methods of disciplining him (now 21 mths).

I have tapped him on the back of the hand for repeatedly touching something he's been told not to touch, but that's about the extent of it and he's a good boy most of the time!!

However, the other day he threw something at the TV. DP jumped up and immediately smacked him on the bottom (not very hard and he did have a nappy on)!! I was horrified and ds was distraught! DP couldn't understand why I reacted like that and accused me of questioning his ability as a Father. I just didn't like the thought that although we had discussed it and agreed months before hand, he had just changed his viewpoint without telling me!

I don't quite know what to do about it... the arguement got quite heated and at one point I even said if he hit him again he was out of the house!! Am I over-reacting??

OP posts:
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prufrock · 12/03/2003 11:10

No. I would have reacted exactly the same.

kathsmj · 12/03/2003 12:18

No, I don't think you were overeacting either, it goes from a little tap to something harder and harder in the end. The child will become less sensitive to it and will start to hit friends and think it's OK to do it if you're angry with someone. Also, if you are going to use a smack on the back of the legs, use it in extreme measures, for example, if the child runs into the middle of the road, even then ideally, the child needs to have guidance over road sense, not a smack.
However, you have got the right idea about it, from your own experiences as a child, it leaves you with scars not discipline, and your lack of respect for your mum proves it.

breeze · 12/03/2003 12:20

Yes i think that you did over-react slightly. I mean, he could have broken the telly and then where would you been. I think chucking him out was a bit extreme, ok maybe if he beat your son then fine, but what we are taking about it a light slap. I think you should have another chat with DP and discuss this again, maybe he thought no smacking was ok before he actually knew what a toddler was like, sometimes a little small smack on the bum shocks and make them stop doing something naughty or even dangerous.

My DS is 3 and I smack him (only as a last resort) for example when he nearly ran into the road.

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kathsmj · 12/03/2003 12:40

Having read what breeze has just posted, in agreement, perhaps throwing DP out of the house is a little extreme, I expect you were filled with dread following your experiences. Maybe chat with DP again and say why you are feeling so strongly about the issue of smacking and reconfirm ways to discipline and agree to stick to it as much as possible.
We are all human and everyone has different tolerance levels, I'm sure your child would rather have parents who were agreeing and getting along than shouting and arguing, if your Son homes in on this issue he may even start winding his Father up on purpose to get loads of positive attention from Mum. As you said, it is an extremely controversial subject, just try to agree on discipline methods and stick to it if poss!

mum2toby · 12/03/2003 12:45

Thanks for the re-assurance from most of you. The problem with dp is that he was brought up in a strict Catholic family and was quite often given the cane at school for what we would now class as trivial reasons. He is a wonderful Dad an ds loves him to bits.

I can see the reasoning behind your statement breeze regarding not knowing what a toddler is like until you have one!! That's very true.

DP just doesn't see it as that big a deal, soI'm wondering if he's done it before without my knowledge.

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prufrock · 12/03/2003 12:53

your problem here is not so much the smack - even though I think that is wrong it is an indivduals choiceas to whether to do it or not - it is the fact that your dp went against what the two of you had previously agreed. if he thinks that smacking is OK, he should discuss taht with you so that you can come to a joint decision. he can't unilaterally decide to make such a huge change to your parenting way.

breeze · 12/03/2003 13:01

mums2toby,

You really have to trust your dp, if he says it was the first time then you will have to believe him, I mean if you do not have trust in a relationship, whats the point.

I hope you do manage to work it out, maybe you should try councilling (if there are other issues in your relationship) or maybe a reward chart so that you child is rewarded for his good behaviour, maybe even a reward chart for your dp Wishing you all the best.

mum2toby · 12/03/2003 13:05

I do trust dp, it's just that he maybe just didn't think it was important enough before to mention it to me..... he certainly knows how I feel now!

ds is a good boy and don't think he's old enough yet for a star chart. Neither is dp!

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Bozza · 12/03/2003 13:41

Mumtotoby - how active was your DP in your initial discussion about discipline. Did he give his opinions and make some points or just go along with what you said thinking it was no big deal, keep you happy etc? TBH I think threatening to chuck him out for a smacked nappy bottom is a bit much when you say that that you smack his hand.

I consider myself a smacker but have only ever tapped DS on the hand (he is 2 btw) whereas you consider yourself not to be a smacker. Interesting.

I think your DS was probably distraught because of the shock and also maybe your reaction? Sorry may be misjudging here because you don't say whether you reacted immediately or later.

mum2toby · 12/03/2003 14:18

Bozza - I reacted immediately and it probably was partly my fault ds got upset, but I was SO shocked!

I don't class a light tap on the back of the hand as smacking, but then again this raises the whole issue of what is smacking, where do you draw the line etc etc etc...
I don't disagree with smacking coz I think it's child abuse, I just don't think it's an effective way to discipline a small child.

DP has a habit of agreeing with me about certain things, then later I find out he has only agreed to keep me happy, which is so destructive and dismissive of me.

OP posts:
Bozza · 12/03/2003 16:14

Yes mumtotoby I wondered if this might be the case - he agreed because it was the easiest option without actually considering what he really thought. My DH does that a lot.

Agree with you that smacking isn't really effective but what if you thought that, for instance, taking away his favourite toy wasn't effective. You'd hardly be likely to throw DP out for it, would you? So I think there is maybe a bit more to it for you than just that it is ineffective.

I wasn't trying to blame you for upsetting your DS btw - a bit worried it might have come across like that.

Oakmaiden · 12/03/2003 18:22

To be honest you will probably find you dh wasn't really thinking about how you had agreed to raise your child and was probably acting instinctively based upon the way his was raised as a child. I'm sure that if you discuss it together you will be able to find some agreement. Although how will you feel if he says that now, when faced with the reality of a toddler, he feels the initial rules you agreed upon were inappropriate?

There is another area that I think you should consider too. (Please don't think I'm getting at you!). My dh and I have a rule that if one of us acts in front of or to our child in a way that the other feels is inappropriate then we discuss it in private - never in front of the child. Because we feel a united front is so important in parenting - even if privately we disapprove. It does stop the child feeling that there are cracks to get into, and that "Daddy" is really mean and if I go to "Mummy" she will shower me with sympathy and not mind my behaviour. I just feel it is important (even if I haven't expressed it really well - there is a child nagging me for a drink as I type, so I'll have to go and deal with that!)

mollipops · 16/03/2003 07:49

Have to agree with oakmaiden anout the united front thing. It's a definite must. If your child sees you arguing over things to do with him he will think it might be worth a try to play one of you off the other...and after all, while you are arguing, the heats off him! He's probably too little to figure this out yet, but it wouldn't take long.

I think your dp did react without thinking - we do tend to repeat what our parents did unless we make a conscious decision not to, as you have. If he sees there are other alternatives he might be willing to see why you think this way. I really think you should discuss it, if dp is willing, when ds is not around (ie sleeping) and when things are going well. Give him the "skills" he needs to handle things like that without reacting in anger impulsively - easier said than done - we've all done it, I'm sure. Warnings, timeout, loss of favourite thing etc. are all good alternatives (which you probably already use! )

If you are planning a 2nd child this is even more important - he might decide his baby brother or sister is "naughty" and needs a smack!

amber3 · 17/10/2004 02:09

This is a message to anyone who conciders spanking their children.
No matter what happens during the upbringing of a child - NEVER HIT, NEVER SPANK, NEVER SHOW OUT-OF-CONTROL BEHAVIOR; children will learn that violence solves problems if you do (monkey see, monkey do). If you hit them, and they still, for some reason look up to you, they will copy your behavior.
But spanking may also disorient them, and they are likely to disrespect you for it.
Some parents subconsciously spank to "get back" (so to speak) at their own parents, who might have hit them when they swore, or did things they didn't know better than doing...
You have to be patient and give the child reason to respect and admire you for your actions. This does not mean that you should spoil them by any means, or let them do as they please in any situation.
It is especially inhumane to spank a child for making a mistake - something you had not warned them about in advance... They should not be expected to know what you do - they don't have much life experience, and their first experiences should not include having their skin hit red by people they are supposed to respect.
You have to be able to explain and educate your child verbally - it's only human nature to show obstinacy at a young age, and it has been proven (over and over again), that such behavior cannot be spanked away.
Children must be listened to, and understood properly by their parents. They cannot be physically forced to think certain ways, and expected to grow up to be individuals with thoughts of their own.

Spanking has been banned by law in most of Europe, and since earlier this year, in Canada as well.
Are you aware that it's still OK by law (even suggested) for teachers to spank, cane and paddle kids in schools in 22 US states? There HAS to be a change to this! In Italy, this has been banned since 1865, and in Finland since 1890. The activity in the home was banned by law in Sweden in 1978.
In the US spanking at home is illegal in ONE state...
The US is a very religious country, and the bible, which hasn?t been much updated in 2000 years, suggests for people to spank their children, and for children to always accept their parent, since they ?know best??well, the world is changing, and HAS changed. A lot of people today know and UNDERSTAND that there are lots of incompetent parents, and that hitting will not solve a problem. It might seem to for the moment, but may, and will on some level, effect a child (a grown up child) psychologically in retrospect.
Circus animals are physically punished when taught tricks and "manners" - people should NOT be. People should be allowed to think, and partly learn of their own.

Parents in the US, more than other parts of the world, tend to follow certain quotes from the bible on parenting, but times are changing, and the bible is not being updated. This is a serious issue, people. Were you to move to Germany and spanked your child, you can count on being arrested for punishing a child physically. Same thing in Denmark. Same thing in Norway, Finland, Italy, Austria, Israel, Latvia, Cyprus, Canada...
Remember that there are passages in the bible that speak out AGAINST spanking as well.

Recently doctors have noticed a disease (causing an inflammation in the intestine) which strikes adults who have been abused on different degrees as children...all people are different, some psychologically stronger than others, meaning that this disease can strike adults who subconsciously bear the memory of being spanked as abusive.
Smacking a child is a very LIGH form of abuse, hitting them with a belt or a cane is a HEAVY form of abuse.
No one becomes wiser (just like that) from having their butt smacked - people learn from experience. If they are forced they will become insecure.

We must not think of our children as sinister creatures living for ruining the little piece we get in our lives after work and school. Before having entered the life of parenthood, we may have been used to getting that time for relaxing, but when entering parenthood we must accept saying goodbye to big part of that piece.
We must love our children and understand that these people are the future of both us, and our grandchildren.
If you want to be a parent you must prepare yourself for being patient and understanding - the child should not live in fear by your or anyone else's demand.

Love your children, and think of ANYTHING but hitting (thus humiliating) them when their behavior is highly improper, and you may lose your temper.
Use your imagination - punishments can be bitter-sweet. It can be fun AND educational. You can make them clean their rooms (or do some of your daily chores) when they stubbornly disobey things they SHOULD and are INCLINED to do.
I have forbidden TV, I have withdrawn allowances and toys, I have given orders on cleaning their rooms, I have asked them to clean up possible messes that have been made, at needed times I have raised my voice (without sounding threatening) to let them know I've meant business and that they may have hurt my feelings by disobeying or done something they didn't understand the consequences of, and I have always explained to my children WHY some things should be done, and WHY some things should not be done BEFORE they have had the opportunity to make a mistake. Sometimes they have done wrong out of curiosity, and then there has been an educational discussion. It is natural for children to forget things what they are being told - it is not a disorder. A child's memory and ability to pay attention evolves a lot generally around the age of 8 (depending on the nature of the person this age varies).

Sometimes children can drive you mad (I know much about this,) and to put them in line we may occasionally grab an arm in anger or frustration, but don't undress their pants and smack their rears! They are defenceless and in a process of developing all their senses - give them reason to look up to you and admire your actions!

I love my children. Two of them are grown up now. They have never been spanked, and they are doing very well. They teach me a lot, and I admire them.
One of them just had a baby girl

Last...I want to quote Boris Sidis, from a lecture on the abuse of the fear instinct in early education in Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 1919:
"As long as the child will be trained not by love, but by fear, so long will humanity live not by justice, but by force. As long as the child will be ruled by the educator?s threat and by the father?s rod, so long will mankind be dominated by the policeman?s club, by fear of jail, and by panic of invasion by armies and navies.?

(this text can be found on the educational and recommended homepage of "project NoSpank")

Here is a link to a VERY educational passage of a speech by Astrid Lindgren for parents to read: www.atlc.org/Resources/never_violence.php

Thank you all for your time.

Sincerely,
Proud and loving Grandma' Amber

Hulababy · 17/10/2004 09:18

I don't think you over reacted either. Well maybe the resulting arguement did go OTT, but I don't think you're wrong to be annoyed and angry with your DP.

Discipling your child, and how you do it, should be a consistent approach with you both following the same rules. And your DP did agree with the no smacking rule. Therefore he shouldn't have. I think you need to speak to your DP seriously about your approaches to discipline and how you're going to solve it. Regardless of your approacxh consistency has to be the key.

handlemecarefully · 17/10/2004 22:18

A smack is not a hanging offence. I have smacked my toddler - I don't feel happy about this and don't consider it an effective deterrent or a good way of disciplining her....and generally it's something I try to avoid. I find that a smack seems to really offend her and wind her up (understandably - I remember being smacked as a child and really resenting it). Time out is preferable IMO, but really its not such a big deal. I'm sorry but I really struggle to understand extreme reactions to smacking - sure its not a good thing, but I do think people would benefit from getting a sense of perspective. There are far worse things in child rearing - such as not giving enough praise, being over critical etc.

pixiefish · 17/10/2004 22:22

this is a resurrected thread all. first posted in 2003!!!! Same poster as bombarded the board this morning

handlemecarefully · 17/10/2004 22:26

Good spot! - Feel foolish now. And very inclined to smack Amber3 (sad and sorry individual that he / she is)

pixiefish · 17/10/2004 22:31

don't worry handlemecarefully. I read the whole thing before i reached her post and clicked what it was.

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