Don't understand what my baby wants - help needed...

[NicknameAlreadyTaken]

I've never understood what my DD wants. Never could tell one of her cries from the other in spite of most parenting books I have mentioning that babies have different types of crying for expressing different needs and that mothers should be perfectly able to distinguish between them early on. My DH also thought that all DD's cries were the same.
Now DD is almost 10mo, so she's not expressing her needs with crying only, but I still don't understand what she wants. DH can't understand her either, but he's not staying with her 24-7 like I do!
At the moment it looks like I'm trying to feed her when she's tired, play with her when she's hungry, etc (although I can't say definitely, it's just like all I do is wrong).
What do I do to change that?

She will play a little then start whining, crawl to me, climb on me, will stop whining for a while while I cuddle her, then start again and I don't know what she wants! Getting increasingly desperate...

She wasn't always that whiny, it's a recent thing which probably has something to do with increased separation anxiety.
Nevertheless, i've always felt that I'm getting her wrong, like trying to get us both ready for a walk just to have her increasingly frustrated when we are almost ready, try breastfeeding her then and have her nicely fallen asleep at the breast, and many more examples alike

We've been having certain problems with solids - she won't eat from a spoon except for very small amounts on rare occasions, so is only having finger-foods, but is not taking much both in terms of amount and variety. And now it looks like she's hungry all the time but won't eat when i offer her something. Which makes me think I'm wrong thinking she's hungry, so I try playing with her instead, etc. I'm just completely lost.

Or is that my anxiety not letting me concentrate on her cues properly? What do I do then?

Are there any good books? Anything else?
Please help...

Or do I just need a break?

Those parenting books should be banned! I could never distinguish between DS cries either - it is only now at age 2 that I can tell between a whinge about something he didn't get and genuine distress. It is hard, especially when you have a baby (like DS was) who doesn't often seem content.

What helped us a LOT was teaching him a few baby signs, starting with Milk, Eat and More. You can get these off the CBeebies website if you don't already know them. What you do is make the sign every time you offer milk or whatever, and whenever your DD is eating/drinking milk or whatever. It takes about 4 - 6 weeks on average for them to get the idea (but your DD may be quicker).

As for the eating, just keep offering food and try not to worry about what she eats and how much just yet unless she has weight issues. My DS ate a very limited range of foods - all finger foods - at 10 months but at 2 he is a really good eater. It is often like that.

And yes you do sound like you need a break. Make sure you get one

Signs here

You're me in a temporal time-shift, I'm sure !

Ds is nearly 2, so we're now past this phase, but I remember him at 10 months, it was so hard and tiring. He was cruising, but needed carrying to get somewhere (especally up the stairs) and I'm only 5 foot nothing. He was lashing out whenever he was frustrated (a lot) and headbutting me, breaking my glasses, kicking me on the changing mat, etc. And most of the time, I just didn't know what he wanted. I'd also never got the hang of working out his cries and was also nearly a year down the route of sleep deprivation.

The light came on when my best mate (risking my wrath, bless ) took me aside, said that I seemed v. unhappy and that she was worried and dared to suggest that ds might not actually know what he wanted either. I was completely and realised that, by jove, she was right.

He wanted every thing and nothing and, as I was at home with him, took his frustrations out on me. On a practical level, having a routine helped, especially knowing that I could predict when he was likely to be hungry and having something planned (walk into town, trip to the supermarket, etc.) each morning.

I'm afraid that I also went back to work for a bit part-time and he went to Grandma's and Nursery which gave me a break and a chance to gain some sanity. I'm home full-time with him now and loving it .

Sorry, I didn't mean to post such a long reply , but you're not alone, it's no reflection on you and (repeat the mumsnet mantra) THIS TOO SHALL PASS.

have you got him any sort of routine? He's of an age where that may help the both of you...

Thanks for the signs tip! I'll definitely try and teach her some of those.
I think she already understands words like "milk feed", "going for a walk", "bathing", "finished/done", as she seems to react accordingly, but signs should make it even easier for her.

And she does have some weight issues, although my HV is not concerned. She said to me last time: "it's not the first time your baby loses a bit of weight and goes off the line, she's done it in the past, so it's a normal thing for her"
And I'm not yet too concerned, as she loses small amounts indeed.
I think it's more of a comparison thing, all babies from my antenatal group eat bowlfuls of stuff and my DD will only have a bite or two of everything. And those parenting books too... None of them mention such eating patterns
And besides, sometimes she will act like she's hungry but won't eat what I offer her, which makes the whole thing irrational and confusing.

She is cruising, but luckily doesn't mind crawling from point to point too. Although she's now trying to reach things on the table or somehow climb on table or chairs, which gives her lots of frustration, but in such situations she will just complain and i will help her get what she wants.

And sometimes, yes, it will look like she doesn't know what she wants, she will crawl around, pick up one toy after another and discard or toss them while complaining or cursing everything in her own language.

As for routine, I gave up trying. I'm pretty organized myself (oh, well, was in my pre-baby life ), so i tend to stick to routine without even thinking about it. But with DD it proved to be hopeless. She changes her feeding/sleeping/etc schedules pretty often. Besides, she has a pretty strong personality and is very sensitive too, so won't stand things going against her will. So, every time I have to change routine to suit her new schedules and needs and never vice-versa.
So, we have a sort of routine, like I try giving her solids at particular times after her naps and milk feeds as she seems to be more likely to eat more willingly at these times. Or like going for a walk at certain times before her naps as it helps her fall asleep better (but I will often get the time of her next nap wrong ), etc. And some sequence of bedtime actions. But all these are not "rules", they are more like "guidelines" and get broken every day, so I'm not sure whether they are helping at all.

The beauty of the signs is not so much that they understand you - it is more that they can do it themself and ask for what they want. It definitely avoided some frustration for us.

It is horrible when other children seem to be better eaters but honestly, it still is early days yet. A friend of mine has a DD who ate huge bowlfuls of puree but when the time came to move onto lumps or finger foods - complete refusal. Now at 2 she will only eat very plain foods like boiled pasta or noodles, and nothing is allowed to touch anything else and she won't try anything new. Whereas my DS hated all puree type stuff and really only ate bread and fruit for months. Now he just eats what DH and I eat as long as there is no cabbage or other green nasties hiding in it

We have had weight issues with DS too - he is intolerant to dairy which doesn't help - but despite having a huge appetite he is still very small for his age in weight, though not height. Just like my DH in fact (and I am slim though short). Ironically his weight has plateaued more as he started to eat well. I think he is just made that way. Are you or your DP slim or small? It could be that your DD is meant to be small too. If your HV isn't giving you a hard time then that is positive but obviously you have to go with your instincts.

One day your DD forceful personality is going to be an advantage, try and see it that way!

So lot of things sound familiar, TheProvincialLady!
DD now only eats potatoes, cucumber, tomatoes and all fruit except for bananas, plus a bit of bread/bagels/oatcakes. We also try adding some minced meat or vegs to her potato-cakes, and it seems to work. She used to love carrots, cauliflower, beetroot (oh, very colourful and messy ), and other vegs when we were just starting solids, but won't eat them now.
I suspect she's still reacting to dairy too (she used to react to lots of things i eat, so i was on elimination diet for quite some time), so am not giving her dairy at the moment (and am not eating dairy myself, still breastfeeding her), will introduce it again a bit later and see what happens.
And you are right, friends' babies all had/still have some problems with lumpier food and my DD easily chews off chunks of fresh apple or apple skin, etc.
As for her weight, yes, she's more like tall and slim (8 kg now). DH is rather tall and slender, i'm slim but not too tall, so i think DD took a bit of both.
Maybe you are right re personality as well, but so far it's been pretty difficult for us, because both me and my DH are rather quiet people and DD is sometimes just too active for us. But I think I anyway prefer her lively interest in everything to meditative relaxed apathy of some babies I know!

So, do you mean, to summarize, that some mothers just don't understand their babies which is perfectly normal, and that some babies just don't know what they want which is perfectly normal too and will pass?

I think it is probably a bit of both, like many relationships! It is so much easier when they can tell you a bit about what they want, but even then they get overwhelmed at times and have no idea what they want. Some babies are much more relaxed than others but I agree with you, I'd rather have my inquisitive DS than a more passive child....well most of the time FWIW I think you probably understand your DD very well or you wouldn't have got to the bottom of her food reactions.

Oh lord you have been reading that blinkin Baby Whisperer haven't you. I read this and in addition to clearly being the worst mother in the world for having emergency c-section and not managing to bf for very long, I also got to beat myself up because I never ever understood what DS was crying about, in fact in addition to that frequently mistook other crying babies for my own, thus negating the myth that a true mother can recognise the sound of their own baby crying at a hundred paces.

I think its all rubbish really, we ended up just going through a checklist of feed baby, change nappy, cuddle, put in cot. At 10mths she might be getting frustrated because wants to get moving but too young yet, our DS was a right old grizzler at that age.

rookiemater, I've been reading a couple of articles on attachment parenting. And it's really frightening how easy such articles can turn your budding confidence upside down

Although I can definitely say that even before I read anything on parenting (except for basic books on baby care that mostly concentrate on physical matters like bathing, feeding, changing, etc rather than psychological and philosophical ones) my biggest problem and a source of constant stress was that I had absolutely no idea why DD was crying.
This standard check-list didn't help us much, because she seemed to tolerate wet or dirty nappies fine, was fine being a bit cold, would continue crying when held, etc. So I ended up offering her a feed first and in most cases she would accept it. However, it was impossible to feed her when she wasn't hungry. So, looks like she wanted to feed all the time, for nutrition or for comfort, doesn't matter.

TheProvincialLady, getting to the bottom of a problem is something I'm quite used to as a part of my job, it's just a matter of seeing logics and structure in things and having patience. So, I'm not sure whether you are right or not. But thanx anyway for your support!!!

I would implement feeding times and napping times and then work around that. Then you know if she's hungry, you know if sheis tired, and you can slot in playtime, knowing that this is what she wants. My DD2 is 10 momths and this is her feeding and napping routine.

0600 milk
0700 solid food
0800 nap til 0900
0900 play
1000 walk
1100 milk feed
1200 solid good lunch
1300 nap til 1500
1500 milk feed
1530 solid snack only
1700 solid food dinner
1800 bath
1830 milk feed
1900 bath

Now, you may not want to go down the routine road but babies LOVE routines and maybe your DD really needs to know what is coming next - my DD1 was the same and once I got her on a routine, she was a very happy baby and I was happy, because if she was crying at, say, 1045 I knew she was thinking about food and would just up the play, or just gove her her milk when that happened. Made me feel like a very good mummy, and if your DD sees you being happy, she will be happy too.

Jewelsandgems, I would love our schedule to look like yours!

Unfortunately, my DD has a milk feed every hour or so. She had reflux and couldn't take big amounts, so has always been taking small amounts and having frequent feeds as a result. I don't think she has a problem with reflux anymore, but she will resist changing her feeding schedule and will be very determined to get it the way she needs (or wants). I tried spacing her feeds a little by making her occupied/entertained and disctracting her from feeding, but she will keep coming to me for a feed, get increasingly frustrated and just start crying if her needs are ignored like that. And I can't make her feed for longer either, she will feed for 2 minutes, be desperate to immediately go on playing and will cry if i keep offering her the breast.
I guess you get it that I can't give her more solids than she wants to take either.

Besides, she's too unstable in terms of her night sleep and daytime naps. Today she woke up at 5:50AM, last sunday she woke up at 7:40AM, having gone to bed at approximately the same time on those nights. Mostly she will have her first nap in 3 hours after waking up, but sometimes it can be in 4 hours or in 2 hours like today. Mostly she will have 2 naps a day and will go to bed at around 9PM, but sometimes she will have just one nap and go to bed at 5-6PM (and wake up at 6-7AM the following morning) or have three shorter naps and go to bed much later. I think it happens both because she's so sensitive and susceptible (and will have nightmares which make her wake up earlier) and because she often feels uncomfortable due to a food reaction or just upset stomach, which gives her a broken/shorter sleep too.

Although she likes routine in terms of a repeating sequence of actions, like a bedtime routine. For example, she knows that going to bed is preceded by bathing, so will
try climbing up the stairs heading to the bathroom when she feels she's ready for sleeping.

Many people say that babies thrive on routine, but she seems to be happy only when her current needs are met regardless of what's on schedule.

That's why understanding what she wants is so important for me.

Hm... Maybe TheProvincialLady is right and I do understand my DD, but she's just too different from my expectations of what a baby should be like, so I can't trust my own judgement?

I wish I knew what it would be like when I got pregnant!

Nickname I am sorry to keep going on about the similarities between our two children but my DS was just the same! I used to look at my friends with their babies who did X at X time and stuck to the same thing most days and wonder what on earth I was doing wrong. But my DS was just not a routine baby - from birth he just did his own thing in his own way in his own time. Frustrating for me but, it has to be said, very like his father who hates routine of any kind

Anyway, now he is 2 he does have a stable routine and has had for about 8 months - though it goes out of the window as soon as he is ill or teething (so quite often actually....) What did it for us was the stopping of milk feeds - which were bottle feeds anyway and I would have felt/done differently had they been breast feeds - and getting DS at the same time every morning and after every nap no matter how much actual sleep he had had. After a few days he started to respond, but I don't think he would have done if we had tried it much earlier.

On the plus side, many of the routine loving babies are still very much into their routines and get upset if they are changed so it can be quite inflexible for the parents. Whereas DS will miss a nap without complaint and go to bed earlier, or stay up late and get up late in the morning to accommodate our need for a lie in

There are always two sides to the coin when it comes to personality types IMO. I try and look on the positive. You know you really do sound like you are doing just fine, only you are a bit over anxious and under confident in yourself. Would you agree with that?

provincial lady when did you start signing? did you jsut make it part of how you communicated with your dc?

I think DS was about 7m when I started doing it but it was quite a while before DS joined in - he was maybe 8 or 9m. Milk was his first sign and it was swiftly followed by food, then bird, then more. I just did the signs whenever I remembered but it was very motivating once he signed back - then he started picking them up very quickly. My friends' babies who did signing found the same thing. We did Sing and Sign initially, but only for a term and only for that long because DS enjoyed the class - it was a useful way for me to remember the signs but DS didn't actually learn any signs there. It's whether you do the signs the rest of the time that makes the difference I think. I am expecting DC2 in a couple of weeks and will be doing signing from as early as possible as I found it so useful.

I am sooooooooooo glad I never had the time to read parenting books.

We had a check list

Nappy
Food
Cuddle
Play
Too hot
Too cold
colic
Sleep

It was usually one of those, except when I managed a bit of lego in the nappy

I had no idea that there were suposed to be different cries.... as far as I could tell it was on or off.

Don't beat yourself up because of what teh commercial baby raising industry says you must do.

nickname I feel like you are allowing your DC to take control a little too much. Your DD is 10 months and needs you to take control. If DD is not awake at 6, I wake her! At the weekends she will usually get up around 7, but she is awake from about 0630, and just plays in her cot til I go in (so it is a little bit flexible for me) but do you think your DD is just snacking thus never getting full, and always being just a bit hungry (but not enough to feel like taking a good feed) Harsh as it may seem, you have to be strong and tell her "it's time for food now" and then, if she only feeds a little, then give her solid food and then say to her again "no food now til such-and-such" and stick to it. Snacking makes reflux worse anyway, so it is a good time to stop that. Maybe tackle the feeding first, and then go to naps. At least it's one thing you can be sure of when she is upset (that she is not hungry)

It's true that a routine can be inflexible, but I would rather that and have days and days where DD2 does not cry, or be in the supermarket and be confident she will be content (because I have 2 hours til her lunch etc)

Your DD needs her solid food now, milk is not enough so perhaps experiment with making yout own babyfood etc and offering her some of your lunch. My DD2 eats with us at all meals now, and is a much better eater if we are all sat around the table tucking in!

Good luck

provincial lady - this all sounds really good -goign to look for a sing and sign myself now

Jewelsandgems, i thought it was worse for reflux to have a big feed rather than smaller frequent ones, because it's when stomach is full its contents is more likely to find its way back. So snacking was my DD's way of easing her reflux.
I do make her food myself or give her my food to try, because most of ready-made food is designed to be fed from a spoon and my DD won't take it that way. And I do sit her at the table whenever we have a meal ourselves. And in most cases she will have some solids, then a milk feed and then a bit more solids at each meal. It's just that self-feeding is not as efficient as spoon-feeding in terms of amounts your baby gets (and is slower too). And that she's too firm in her resistance when it comes to making her do something she doesn't want to. Therefore it's going to be too stressful both for her and for us to put her on any sort of rigid routine with fixed getup time, etc, it will be a long battle of wills traumatic for all of us, so I'm not going to force anything on her that way just yet. Maybe when she's older and can better understand reasoning, etc...

TheProvincialLady, thanks for getting back once again, it's great and very inspiring to know that someone had a similar baby and is doing fine now having gotten through all the difficulties that i'm experiencing now. Because when you only see "normal" babies around that behave like the child-books say they should, and your baby differs so much from them, you start feeling somewhat worried that your baby might not be alright and you might not be doing things right too.
And yes, I do agree that i'm a bit over anxious and under confident in myself

As for the signs, I'm not sure I'll be using the ones on that web-site. For example milk sign looks fine when applied to cow's milk, but makes me feel pretty embarrassed to apply it to breastfeeding. And the "more" sign for me looks more like "no more", which may be due to cultural differences (i'm a foreigner). But i'm definitely going to use (or invent my own) some.

TheProvincialLady, what were your ways of coping with such a "normal" child? (I'm sure they are all normal, it's just that for some reason we don't quite expect norm to be so varied) What was giving you the confidence?