What is acceptable discipline in childcare environment?

[NameChange101]

I've just posted this in the Nurseries topic in the hope that I'll get some advice from people who work in child care. I'm putting it here as I'd appreciate the opinions of parents, too.

"Have name-changed in case nursery staff read this!

Is it acceptable to

(a) continue shouting at child who is on a "time-out" for bad behaviour even when child has been reduced to tears?

(b) to ignore a child who is sobbing whilst on "time-out"?

(c) to physically force child to do something you ask them, i.e. child won't fold their legs so grab their legs and do it for them?

Children in question are 3 years old.

Thanks for any opinions".

Our nursery used to do this to one "bad" boy-he used to get dragged around by his arm . Didn't see this until dd was leaving though, and they were new staff-would never be allowed under the ones that were there when dd was.

(Nurseries is more used by parents who use nurseries than by people who work in nurseries (although there are a few of those too))

Obviously not - why would you even need to ask? Whats the background to this? If you have a complaint about one of your childs carers (or indeed someone you work with??) you need to speak with the nursery manager.

Have just posted on your other thread - none are acceptable

I'd say a and b definitely out. c totally out if you mean grabbing violently, forcing violently. But if done gently and calmly, maybe with a bit of a joke, there are circumstances where it would be ok. But I gather this was not the case here. They sound pretty clueless to me. Have never come across such incompetent staff myself.

Why would I even need to ask this? Because when I spoke to Nursery Manager (with whom I have a good relationship) about (a) and (b) she became very defensive and said that they had to act in accordance with parents' wishes. I infered that she meant that some parents actually want their child to be disciplined to an extent where by they are reduced to tears and then left sobbing whilst they ponder the error of their ways. Now I know there are some tough parents out there so I just wanted to check that I wasn't being overly-sensitive to what I'd witnessed so thought I'd ask for some feedback before I take this further.

It made me realise that I'd never seen a written version of the nursery's behaviour management policy and I'd never been asked how I'd want DD dealt with should she misbehave (she chooses to be an angel at nursery!).

None of the above are acceptable to me. The quiet step -yes! Shouting at and ignoring sobbing children - no!

I nearly lost my first job as a nursery urse because i asked my colleague to stop doing this imo all are unacceptable and uneccesary.

fwiw i use/used a thinking chair the child sits on the chair with me next to him i tell him thats not a good way to behave lets look around the room and see what everyones doing and who he would like to join and play with,generally within a few mins they are calm again and if not clearly they need either removing from room and sitting quietly with a carer or they need a diversion.....a huge bird in the garden ....a lovely smell in the kitchen or a job only they can do (find me a blue block because that will fit the tower beautifully.

this same colleague used to leave little ones in wet pants so they could 'feel wet'

I wouldn't particularly approve of 'time out' as a punishment in a childcare setting (do use it at home) but if it is used then the whole point is that the child in time out gets no attention so to that extent I can understand b) - followed by comfort and calming when the time out is finished. But sparkles approach is better and is the one used by ds1's pre-school.

a)- no way. Undermines whole point of time out (no attention) and is horrible.

c)- depends how it is done but gut feeling is no, not acceptable.

I would say only (b) is "acceptable". And only if a close eye is kept on them and the time limit, explanation etc is properly enforced. (a) would only happen if time out wasn't being correctly enforced and (c) shouldn't happen - being dealt with by a time out if necessary.

NameChange101 on Thu 06-Nov-08 08:53:01
"Why would I even need to ask this? Because when I spoke to Nursery Manager (with whom I have a good relationship) about (a) and (b) she became very defensive and said that they had to act in accordance with parents' wishes. I infered that she meant that some parents actually want their child to be disciplined to an extent where by they are reduced to tears and then left sobbing whilst they ponder the error of their ways. Now I know there are some tough parents out there so I just wanted to check that I wasn't being overly-sensitive to what I'd witnessed so thought I'd ask for some feedback before I take this further."

What a silly excuse! Parents want their children to be made to behave- and it is up to her to have the professional competence to manage this in a civilised way. Can you imagine a situation where an ace nursery teacher who has all the children working beautifully for her gets told off by the parents for not shouting? Of course not!

It makes me so, so angry, that because a lot of nursey children aren't terribly verbal, the staff seem to think they can get away with this- because they think the parents won't find out.

Imagine if this scenario happened in either Primary or Secondary school. The teacher would be suspended. And yet it seems to be Ok in some nursery environments.

(I had an ish-oo with a smacking teacher in dd's nursery- I'm in Italy, and unfortunately it seems to be the norm unless you go down guns a-blazing. Which I did.)

Good luck namechanger....

I think there are circumstances where b) is OK. A and c never. I'm esp perturbed by the fact they did this in front of you.

Rediculous answer from the manager. So if the parents wanted smacking would they have to do that too?

I agree the b) is perfectly acceptable

a) defies the point of time out completely

c) Not really acceptable imo BUT it depends how its done, kindly and gently = fine, forcing unkindly, not fine