potty training at 19m

[littlefrog]

DS has been extremely interested in poos and pees and loos for ages - comes and looks to see what we are doing, makes a psss noise when he hears us peeing, and for quite a while has done the same thing either just before or as he pees himself when he's out of a nappy.
We've had a potty around for ages, and he likes it, both as a thing to put thing in and more recently to sit on too.
A couple of weeks ago he was nappy free and went all on his own, sat on the potty and did a pee - no encouraging, nobody taking any notice, he just did it.
A few accidents since then (he's not nappy free that much), and then yesterday evening he said he wanted to psss, so I took off his nappy, and he wandered about for a bit before doing a pee in his potty then, and another before his bath. Was v wet and dirty when he got up this morning though.
CM says it sounds like he's ready for potty training and we should give it a go - what do people think? And how do we do it with one so young (and not that coordinated - he's been walking less than a month!)?
(by the way I'm on the EC end of the spectrum - have read a lot about it, and tried the cueing thing (hence the psss noises), but haven't had the energy or courage to give it a real go.)

No harm in trying. Plenty of children are ready before the standard age of two. My dd2 was trained at age 18 months - we had a couple of weeks of accidnets but we were on holiday at the time so that's not surprising. After that she was fine, the odd accident every now and then. It certainly saved on the hassle and cost of nappies!

How did you do it, Belgo? Just put her in pants and let her ask? All the things I've read about potty training go on about them needing to be able to manage trousers/pants themselves, and DS hasn't a hope of being able to do that for ages! Did you do nights at the same time?

No there's no need to wait until they can manage pants/trousers themselves - this is why I never read any potty training books! If you wait until then, you could be waiting until they are three years old and more.

I kept the potty visible at all times, and regularly put her on it, but never ever forced her or asked her more then once if she needed the potty.

I didn't really do much, she did it all.

She was potty trained at night before the age of two, then needed nappies again, then was dry again, and is now back in night time nappies since starting nursery school as she is so tired she sleeps solidly.

well I said read... guess it's stuff online, actually. anyway, they go on about these 'signs' and I don't know what to think - I don't want to (and anyway wouldn't be able to) force him into anything. but at the same time, ignoring what he's doing seems a bit mean! And it's not as if I specially enjoy washing nappies...

anyone else?

I don't think there's any "having a go" at potty training if you're on the EC side of things - I think it is more of a gradual process until you find your child dry between potty visits and can put them in knickers. There's also no real way of doing EC.

Dd is 15 months. We did the EC thing only for poos since she was 7 months, but otherwise we have not been too bothered; but because she knows what the potty is for and because we have a better sense of when the potty is needed, we have been confident of putting her in knickers for the morning for a few months now. We're still not confident of doing it for the whole day, but that's fine - ECing is about following your child, not the books.

I wouldn't expect any child to be dry at night until at least 3, so I wouldn't worry too much about that, but best of luck - just don't stress and don't say "right, this week we are mostly doing potty training" - your ds is too young for that.

I left DS in nappies until he had poos cracked. (Around 15 mth.) Then I had him in undies that I'd stuffed up front to catch wee accidents. Initially he was asking all the time, but nursery takes them on a schedule so now he doesn't ask unless we're out and occasionally when his teething pain is bad he'll have one or two accidents at home/nursery. I must say, however, that the odd puddle and change of clothes is MUCH easier than nappies... and so much better for the environment too.

I'm a bit like littlefrog. I have started potty training my 21 month (Corrected age 18 months) old twins a couple of days ago. We have had ages of them saying 'wee wee' when they are weeing and gesturing when they are pooing. They also started getting the changing mat when they had soiled themselves. For ages we have had potties around, and (we used to do about an hour 'nappy off time' a day) used to put them on it if they were going on the floor.
I know they are young, but I was sure they were ready.
For the first day I had them in pants and warm jumpers, and they were telling us when they needed to go, but we couldn't get the pants down in time, so now they are bare bottomed. They go the potty when they need to but usually go next to it, and will sometimes get upset if I put them on it.
I'm worried I've started too early, but am also sure they're ready!
What do you think?!

Cara - completely take your point that there's not really a 'having a go' at EC. Though I sort of still feel like that's what I need to do - I've thought about it a lot, and DS does communicate quite a bit about wanting to pee/poo, it's just that I've never really committed to it, so he gets mixed signals. So to the extent that I would need to decide that this is something I am going to really try and understand and be responsive to, I'd need to 'have a go' at it!
I also think that both for me and DS, he'd need to be in pants (or at the very least, wrapless nappies) in order for us to really make any progress with EC - I think otherwise I simply don't notice when I've missed a cue, and after the first bit of being damp, DS just lives with the warm wetness inside his nappy.
2became4, your situation does sound just like ours! I'm still dithering about what to do though, as DS is with CM 2.5 days, and grandmother 1 day, and I can't expect them to be endlessly watchful for cues etc. What are you doing when you go out?
I think what we'll do is probably have a go at having him in pants and pj bottoms at home, and nappies when we're out or he's not with us, and she how that goes.

watching this with interest, dd is 16 months and we haven't got a potty yet but she says wee and poo when she does them, gets change mat and wipes out when she has done anything and now she has a potty book (just a kids picture book) and she shouts potty and gets book when she needs to go. Atm i just praise her and confirm wee or poo and change her. i thought she was too young to start but can it be done? Should i get a potty and sit her down when she says wee or poo?

I have been putting them in nappies if we go out and when they nap/ night time. I went out for the day after a couple of days, so they were in nappies all day, then dp looked after them for the next day and kept them in nappies. So I have started again from scratch, and have pretty much stayed in for the last couple of days (except for a brief walk) to give them a chance to get used to it as they seemed to be getting confused.
I know I'm probably being stupid- but what does EC mean?!

It's perfectly okay to leave them in nappies when you start potty training -- all you have to do is ACKNOWLEDGE when they give a cue. "Yes, I know you need to wee now, but we can't because X so you either have to wee in your nappy or wait." They understand SO MUCH MORE than they can communicate, you'd be surprised! It's also perfectly okay to do one thing at home and another while out, to do one thing with you and another with childminder, etc. You can't "set back" on your child's learning, but if you're not consistent you can confuse your child, so I do agree that YOU have to be ready and decide that you're going to start potty training, however gently.

I always thought boys were later and IMHO before 2 is too early (especially for ds's).

Ds wasnt trained until he was almost 3, he was ready, it was stress free for me and him, virtually conquered straight away.

Sometimes I think mums are a bit competitive (my CM was naggging me for ages to get him into pants) but just wait til they are ready not you

is it ok to leave dd in nappies but when she says potty or wee or poo to put her on a potty (when i buy one) and just leave it so she can see it? don't want to stress her way to early and i had no intention of buying a potty till after xmas maybe even nicer weather but she is very interested in pottys and wees poos and says it when she does it.

EC - elimination communication (horrible phrase! but v interesting idea/practice: suggests that nappies are unnecessary, and that even tiny babies can communicate their need to 'eliminate', so that if you can learn, and be willing to respond to their cues, they/you (significant!) can be 'trained' pretty much from birth). Makes absolute sense to me, I must say, but I've still not done it...

Slightly tangentially (but this sort of responds to mosschops), I read a fascinating book on the history of childcare by Christina Hardyment ('Childcare from Locke to Gina Ford'), and she has a section where she looks at changing practices/fashions of potty training. There's a fascinating table reproduced from some early twentieth century book, which shows expected developmental milestones (rolling, crawling, walking etc.), and it says that at 12 months you would expect a child to be dry during the day. And as far as I can remember, there wasn't a suggestion that this involved training as such, or rewards etc., but rather that your child was able to let you know when they needed to wee/poo, and you did something about it!

What I find tricky about this is the judgement of 'readiness' - I think in many (though I'm certain not all) ways DS is more 'ready' than me for potty training! (thank you for pointing that out, ches). In the sense that he seems to be interested and aware of peeing/pooing some though I'm sure not all of the time, and he'd probably like to experiment with it in much the same way he has with walking, talking, eating. And whilst I feel it's almost disrespectful not to allow him to do that experimenting, I'm also concerned that I may unintentionally end up being impatient with him or stressing him if he doesn't 'get' it fast enough (for me...) Does that make any sense?

I also think it's very hard to recognise signs of readiness. When dd1 was 21 months old, she took the (newly bought) potty down from the table and weed in it. I ignored this rather obvious sign, thinking that children were never ready before the age of two. At the age of 23 months dd1 was potty trained in one day.

That's why I was far more open to the possibility of dd2 being ready for potty training at age 18 montsh, and looking back the signs were there from 16 months.

completely. I have spent 2 days staying in so i can do it properly (twins- so twice the mess!) and I feel like I'm going mad! But I recon a week or two (hopefully!) of really giving them some support will be worth it in the long run. I can see a difference already.

You never guess what happened then- I just typed that- and then heard the most almightly wee on the floor. They both decided to prove me wrong at exactly the same time!

They definately have the idea though. What I found really helped was role play with their teddies. I hide a small bottle of water behind my back, and we play with the potty and teddy/doll and when they're not looking I quickly put some water in the potty and then we make a big fuss! (The teacher in me is coming out!)

ilovetochat she's your DD and you can do whatever you like; whatever fits in with your life. Leaving her in nappies and responding to her requests to use the potty/putting her on at nappy changes/after naps/when she wakes up/etc. would work fine. Worst case nothing happens for weeks, best case, it does and you save nappies/washing/etc. and are amazed by your DD.

mosschops30 my family is infinitely glad we haven't bothered listening to people like you. Imagine my poor child pooing in a nappy twice as long as necessary because I daren't give him the opportunity to poo like a normal person. There are so many developmental milestones between 13 months and 2 years that make it a great "window of opportunity" for introducing potty training gently. Processing sequences, following short instructions, mimicking, burgeoning communication and desire for independence, not to mention wee/poo awareness.

There's nothing radical about PT before 2; it's what our grandparents did after all!

thanks ches, i am going to get a potty at the weekend, maybe a kids toilet seat too? and just slowly introduce it, sit her on and see how it goes.

totally possible to have a go at whatever age you think is right. You are also allowed to take a bit of a lead, ie provide opportunities- it does not have to wait until child actually asks you to buy a potty!!! i think it is also dependent on physical things as well as child can be really motivated but just not have bladder strength- like one of my friend's kids. However, our dd has been blessed with an iron bladder and has been wearing pants happily for a week now, she is 15 months. Pants are loads easier than nappies to get on and off. DS was 25 months when he announced no nappies but had been reliably doing poos in potty for several months by then. It is a bit of a bug bear of mine that we spend so long taching our kids it is ok to wee/poo in nappies that they seem to get so upset when you remove them - you only have to look at most of the posts on here about 'my 3 year won't poo in potty etc' that any small steps you make earlier must surely be helpful.

so what happened today, 2became4?
I was at home with DS today (out and about, but my day off), and so we did a variety of different things - trousers but no nappy (I must get him some pants!), nothing at all, washable nappy when out and about. He did several pees in the potty, 1 on the carpet (half way up the stairs, no potty anywhere nearby), 1 little one on the floor. No poo though, apart from the huge one he got up with (this is fairly typical).
The only thing that bothered me was that when we came in this afternoon and I said let's take your nappy off, he said no no no, and protested vigorously about the idea. Not sure why at all - cold maybe? Anyway, we're going to go on with this for a bit and see what happens, but with no expectations.

I agree with Ches in that i strongly believe that there is a window of opportunity for potty training, just as there is with many many developmental milestones.

My advice would be to ignore what the 'recommended' ages are for reaching milestones and go with your child. You know him best. Don't be afraid to follow his cues - if you think that he's ready to be potty trained, he probably is

FWIW the vast majority of children that i know personally that have been potty trained before the age of 2 have been boys. My nephew was clean and dry at 18 months with no fuss.

Maybe it is the waiting till 2 (and therefore missing the crucial 'window') that is causing children to be potty trained later?? I'm no expert though ...just my musings

Sounds good littlefrog. Did he wee in the potty when you put him on it or did he go and sit on it himself?
The girls are standing by the potty saying wee wee while doing it. The build up to doing a wee/poo consists of loads of sitting on the potty every minute or so for a couple of seconds and lots of pacing around saying wee wee, clutching their bits. They won't actually sit on the potty themselves until I put them on it. I think it may be because they have both caught themselves on it when sitting down in a rush and hurt themselves (enough to put anyone off!).
I'm in two minds if it is too early. They definately know what to do, and when they need to go, but they seem to get a bit stressed about actually going in the potty. But when they have been in nappies they now wont go until you take their nappy off. I don't know what to do! Anyone have any ideas?

Just keep reassuring them about the potty or get them a toilet seat. I suppose it's a bit chilly to have them wee on the grass.

The toilet seat idea sounds good - though perhaps they're still too small to climb onto it themselves, 2becomes4? Far too hard for DS, and he's not that keen on it anyway when I put him there - I think he likes to feel the ground beneath his feet.

DS sits himself down on the potty for his wees - or doesn't, which was more the case today! I rather envy you, 2b4, that your DTs won't wee in their pants - DS is perfectly happy to do that, and just lately hasn't been telling me at all when he does it. So, I don't know. I think we'll try keeping the house warm and bottoms off for a bit longer, but I don't want to stress him about this at all, so what we might well end up doing is just having early mornings and early evenings with no nappy on, and encouraging potty use then, and not fretting at all the rest of the time. I've been trying to be better about changing him frequently when he has been in a nappy though - we've got some Itti Bitti D'Lish ones, which are sort of like fluffy pants that you then popper pads into; I've been using flannels instead, which are much smaller and less absorbent, so that he has to be changed every hour or so, so can't get too wet. It's a lot less washing as well!

That sounds a lot of washing littlefrog. We have had a day of wee's on the floor today. But at least it's next to the potty! I'm working tomorrow, so our nanny will be taking over.
We have been debating whether to put one of them back in nappies, and focus on the other. Then hope the other will catch on quickly as she'll be watching. We are also going away next weekend, which is not good. So maybe we'll give it to thurs, and see what is happening then. Just be a pity to waste all this hard work!