Feeling very sad. Please help. I either have a crap relationship with DS1 or he's jealous of DS2? Don't know which!

[forevared]

I posted this under beh'r/devel'ment under a different title but haven't had much response and feeling desperate so have posted it again here.

Our bright 2.10 year old's behaviour has recently got a lot worse and I'm thinking it's because our 7 month old has recently started at DS1's nursery. Things did get bad for a while after DS2 was born but seemed to settle down. We attributed it all to sibling rivalry and tried our best to make DS1 feel loved and important. Maybe we were a bit too soft on him as things are getting a bit worse this time round.

He's lovely to his little brother, gives him hugs and kisses, is fiercely protective of him at nursery and I can honestly say we've never been concerned about his behaviour toward him. However, towards me and DH he's becoming rude, argumentative, contrary, very bossy and quite unpleasant to be around at times. He's also regressed a bit and when not being any of the above, he's clingy, always wanting to be picked up and carried around, wants undivided attention just when we're having to feed DS2, change his nappy or generally play with him.

Then on Sunday he poo'ed in his pants and didn't tell us (couldn't smell it) and we only discovered it at bathtime. We're doing the whole reward chart thing at the moment with regard to toileting but have been for a while so this is nothing new to him. We have had a few wee accidents both at home and at nursery but he's never done this before.

I wondered if any of you had been through this and could it be sibling rivalry? All his attitude is directed at us. We've done the naughty step, we've tried to be calm and sensible about it, we've shouted, imposed rules and boundaries which seemed to help a bit for a while. Have we missed something? Don't know if we're being too strict or too soft with him. We try to make a fuss of him at the weekend and do special things with him but it's made no difference. Obviously we can't (or won't) ignore DS2 just to save DS1's hurt feelings but both feel at the end of our tether. Are we completely wrong and this has nothing to do with DS2, it's just the timing seems right to us.

Lastly I should mention his attitude is horrendous at times towards me. He's always been a daddy's boy, but when he's rude it's pretty much always towards me. Tells me to go and sit on another chair, or away from him and daddy. When I say hello or try and play with him he shouts NO! at me. Pushes me away when I try to hug him. Lots of "I want daddy!" There are many other instances I could mention but you get the picture. I feel my relationship with him is just going down the toilet and I just want to cry sometimes. I just can't work out if it's jealousy of DS2, or we just don't have a good enough relationship. Or a bit of both. When we do spend time together he can be quite lovely if we're on our own together of if DH is doing something with DS2. I then feel all optimistic till the whole bossy/shouty/angry/rejecting toddler appears again. Please help!

I think it's probably got a lot to do with the fact that he's 2 years old! I don't want to sound dismissive of your worries, but I've got 4 children and all of them have gone through phases of being "challenging" in the sort of ways you describe and not necessarily when there's been a new baby around. Keep repeating to yourself 'it's just a phase', be consistent, loving, try and ignore the unwanted behaviours and praise the good stuff.

I think you're doing all the right things but you just need to chill out a bit and recognise that he's still a very young child and that there may not be a 'magic switch' which will get him to behave in the way that you want. Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth for a bit and wait until they come out of the phase, and that will happen, I promise.

agree with daisy, tbh, aside from your second DC, my DS is much the same as your DS1 - he's 2.8.

I think it's a phase, i'm assuming you're the primary carer at home?? I find I enforce the rules but DS prefers sometimes to be with XH.

I don't think it's anything personal, I think it's just a toddler who's learning to express himself and that he does have some choices etc.

I know it's not easy to think like that thou. (((hugs))

He just needs things to be 'normal' with you in charge and all of you going about your business. If he senses you're making the effort to make things special he might be feeling under the spotlight and resisting the extra focus.
Toddlers do tell people to go away and shout 'no!' without considering your feelings. He's just a baby who can walk - bask in his loveliness towards his brother and don't expect him to behave like a fully-fledged person.
P.S. the naughty step is just a form of rejection imho. Positive parenting is the way forward.

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Agree that he's being a 2.10 year old. My ds never did the Terrible Twos and I was just feeling relieved when he turned into a demonic nearly three year old (and he didn't have any siblings).

As for daddy/mummy, that's not uncommon. Ds is going through a phrase of preferring me. Really should do something about it as it is hurting dh's feelings but I'm not sure what.

That makes me feel a bit better, and thanks Daisymoo for telling me to chill out a bit. I think I needed to hear that.

I do try and remember he's still so little but maybe not often enough. As for the time out on the naughty step. We don't use it often and then only for things like hitting people, but it actually seems to be the one thing that works with him. After we've imposed boundaries with him he's a lot warmer and actually seems happier in himself. Is that odd? Being firm and saying NO doesn't stop him from doing whatever it is he shouldn't be doing.

He sounds like my DS (now much older) - a natural attention seeker who hates having his audience taken away... any kind of drama / attention is fuel for this kind of child and they will do ANYTHING to get it. The only kind of discipline we have found that works (and believe me we have tried the lot - star charts (2 is too young for this IMHO)positivity, bribery, shouting, smacking etc etc)is to take away the oxygen of attention ie naughty step / go to bedroom. Whn he realises no-one is paying attention any more then he soon comes to his senses! HOpe that helps - I do agree it's prbably more age related than anything. We do overthink these things but I have every sympathy as you wouldn't believe the tears of frustration that have been shed in this house over this kind of behaviour

Cheers Willali, that really helps and you've hit the nail on the head. He truly is an attention seeker and like you, we've found the naughty step seems to be the only thing that works.

The star chart he's gone for in a big way and seems to get it. However, that only works for practical things like using the toilet and tidying away his toys, helping us do things round the house, that kind of thing. For the emotional and social stuff it doesn't work - being nice, not hitting or whining.

no problem - glad to help! I do think some children are born to believe they are the centre of the universe - 10 very long years later there are still vestiges of this (don't mean to depress you!) although obviously as they get older you can explain why it is they have to think of others / why they don't always come first etc etc. Also from experience of other friends etc this does seem to be more of a first born issue so maybe there is an element of jealousy in there somewhere - to an extent they were the centre of THEIR universe before new baby comes along and perhaps we underestimate the effect this has on their little unformed minds. NOt that that makes it any easier to deal with at the time.....

I have always found the "ignore the negative, praise the positive" methos impossible so for us the exclusion from the "action" method is the only one that works and I still use it now to good effect if my not so little man oversteps the mark

Willali I think you could be me!

I think this is all very normal both as a 2 yo and as a sibling reaction. My age gap between DS and DD1 is the same and around the same time DS continued to be lovely to his sister and went about hitting other children - randomly on the street - I felt like the world's worst mother and ended up in tears on the phone to parentline to be told it was likely to be over as soon as it started - and it was it just seemed like forever while it was happening. At one point I could see that all DS's behaviour was because he was a sad little boy and the one thing I could do to make him happy -i.e. get rid of his sister was the one thing I just couldn't do. It broke my heart.
Now DS is 7 and DD1 is 5, they have been the best of friends for years and love eachother more than anything. It does all work out it's just hard in the phases.
I was recommended Rebecca Abrams book, 3 sock, one shoe and no hairbrush - it helps you see how all the different phases of adjustment work.
Jealousy / sibling rivalry is a normal part of life and the best thing you can do is to tell your DS you love him a lot of the time and keep to the rules and boundaries as that reinforces it too. He's trying to puinish you with rejection, just tell him you still love him and are there for him when he wants you - i know it hurts that's what he's trying to do - but he still loves you and needs you and you're still loving him and being there for him. You're doing a great job- its hard but it is a phase! Good luck you're doing great

Thanks clutteredup, that's good to know and the book sounds really interesting. I'll check it out on Amazon.

I really try hard to keep doing the "I love you" bit even when I'm hurt and frustrated. DH keeps telling me it's all about rejection, like you say. So I make sure I cuddle him even when he's pushing me away and after he's been told off/been on the naughty step we have lots of hugs. As bad as I feel sometimes I know it's vital that he feels loved. It is strange though because I thought it would be dh he rejected, being such a daddy's boy. Maybe he loves me more than I realised.

DH phoned me up at work last night (I do shiftwork) saying ds1 was tired and sat there eating his dinner saying "I want my mummy" He's never done that! Melted my heart.

They love their daddys because they are precious beings that they don't see all the time and get to do fun stuff with them instead of the everyday boring mundane stuff - however IME actually they do love us too ( even more maybe ) but they take us somewhat for granted. It does us good to get a bit of rejection etc. it make you realise that actually they do love and need us.
DH is out a lot for work and play and I rarely go out in the evenings - DH can come and go as he pleases but if i go out on the occasional night DD1 gives me a rwally hard time - so there we go you see they do love us Glad to have been of some help

Forevared - you seem to be describing my DS - who is 2y5m with 6 week old sister. My mum has been freaking me out, saying he is disturbed etc, and i was beginning to think this. But from speaking to friends, i think he is just behaving quite how a 2 year old with his nose pushed a bit out of joint usually behaves. It isn't half wearing though. I am trying to relax but it isn't easy. I have particular problems taking him out of the house as he saves his worst behaviour for then - just when we have an audience. Personally i'm going for the lots of reassurance / attention at the mo' and only saying no to the really bad stuff. But that can feel indulgent. Let's hope it improves for us both (and all those others out there) soon.

I think this is quite normal AND also I know that for myself I probably expected more from DD when DS was born (she was 2.3) because she was suddenly the eldest child. I'm sure that if he hadn't come along it would have been quite different, and I had to be very careful not to treat her too differently just because DS has arrived.

I had a few comments from family about her being 'disturbed' and 'why is she like that?'. To which I say, becasuse she's 2, which is hard and confusing enough, without also having another baby invading the world which, until now, you have been the absolute epicentre of! there is so much going on for a 2 year old, SO much developmentally and I'm not surprised they can be so awful.

bloody hard though, I know

Cheers everyone, think i'm probably guilty too of expecting too much from him now ds2 has arrived. Just because they're now the 'oldest child' doesn't suddenly make them more mature overnight and as I can testify (and many of you too) actually regress. Poor buggers!

No, doesn't make it any easier though!