how do you cope with 2 totally different parenting styles, or in other words, when your dh constantly behaves with the kids in a way you HATE but just won't stop

[ErnestTheBavarian]

Honestly, if he was a bf & not their dad I'd have booted him years ago.

In some ways he's great.

BUT

-He'll wind them up & not know when to stop.
-He swears around them, so now I have 3 foul mouthed little horrors who eff and blind constantly (inc telling grandad to fuck off!)
-If one of them is crying he'll mimick them, take the piss, call them a baby
-they get frustrated & hysterically angry with them, shout at him to shut up, or hit him, so he punishes them
-He can't say 'turn off the tv' or 'put down your book' - it's turn off that stupid programme' and 'put down your stupid book', everything feels like a put down

• he's rough with them, well 2 out of 4,

9 out of 10 argument are about me picking him up on how he treats the kids. Depending on mood he'll either
-have a go at me & tell me I'm no great mother (true I suppose)
-acknowledge he's out of order, then do it again anyway the next time

• acknowledge he's out of order and try harder for a limited amount of time then at some point start again anyway.

I'm really sick of the shouting, swearing & tears.

So apart from getting divorced, which wouldn't nec. fix it as he'll always be their dad anyway, wtf am I supposed ro do? It's depressing. And the piss taking I'm sure must really damage their self esteem. ANd now they just swaer and shout at each other & me all the time!

I don't know how to deal with my h when he shouts at the dc either. We tend to just move off into another room and leave him but it's not fair really. My h isn't home very often but if for example he is home 'taking rest' as he puts it, 'slobbing flat out on the sofa watching rubbish on TV with eyes half closed' as I put it, he'll even shout at the dc to shut up if they're laughing.

My dd's best friend in Berlin had a strange set up in her family. The parents had totally different ideas on how to bring their 2 dds up so they decided to do alternate days , both worked so it was the morning and after school/hort pick up and care until bed time. The girl used to say things like oh on a mama day I can't do that but whoopee, it's a papa day tomorrow and I can wrap him round my little finger! They seemed happy but I don't think I would be able to cope with that sort of deal.

When h swears (occasionally) or shouts I have to tell the dc that it's uncivilized behaviour and that if everyone behaved like that all the time the world wold be awful. Hope it sinks in. Sounds to me a sif your h is maybe having to be so nice and friendly at work all day that he treats home as a place to let all the stress out maybe? My dad used to be like that, he had to be over-friendly to customers at work and then he'd bring all the stress home at night.

"Such a shit father"
well, yes. yes, he is.

He's a cruel, bullying, sometimes downright abusive father, and when your children get to 18 they will a) behave just like him b) seek partners just like him and c) hate his guts and never visit. I can't believe the way you allow him to treat your children, at least if youi kicked him out they'd only have it once a fortnight.

Video his behavior.

Thats a valid point Ad, cos no way in world could he talk like this at work. And I know he's very stressed about job & the way the economy is going (bil worked at Lehman's so sis on phone in tears constantly since Sunday), and it's coming up to 1st anniversary of his mum's death & he's under pressure to fly back for memorial service, doesn't want to go.

But do I just ignore this? Then our home is a cess pit & our kids turn into animals too? Do I just sit back and say nothing when he's so rude or rough? This is behaviour that I wouldn't tolerate at all from anyone else, so why should I have to accept it?

But nothing I say works. We have another row. He feels I constantly critisise him. Nothing changes.

I think your dh needs to get some help - perhaps counselling if he will go - for him to deal with the anger that seems to drive his behaviour because in one way or another it will damage them to have such negatively aggressive behaviour aimed at them everyday.

Steve Biddulf's book on Raising Boys has a good chapter on the role of fathers and on the type of parenting boys need to become happy functioning men in our modern society and fathers play a very important role because he is usually the first and most obvious male that they emulate and want to have approval from.

I wonder if your dp had a good relationship with his own father growing up?

Hi Ernest,
Sorry you're having such a crap time at the moment. DH sounds like a right pain at the moment. My DH also aggravates me sometimes with his "alternative" methods of playing with DS1. He doesn't understand the concept of routines, sleeps, bathtimes etc. He winds DS1 up to dizzying heights, then wanders off on his Blackberry while I try and calm DS1 down for bedtime. Cue 2 hours later, he's still awake.
Can you believe at the weekend he even took his Blackberry with him to use while bathing DS1!
I hope things start to get better for you. Doesn't help when it's suddenly so damn cold, eh?

SC "I can't believe the way you allow him to treat your children, at least if youi kicked him out they'd only have it once a fortnight"

Think rhat's a bit harsh tbh. I really appreciate and value your s & everyone's input, but you know, I feel like the bloody muggins who gets the blame for everything. So now it's my fault he bahaves like this, cos I allow him to?

Fair enough, maybe you're right.

SO is that really the only solution, so end my marriage, and bring up 4 kids on my own, and have to move back to UK as have no friends here, and no friends or family there. SO it isn't really as simple as boot him out. We would have no home, friends, family, support, nothing.

I think the "kick him out" solution is far too common these days, and not the right solution for you, particularly considering where you are, and the children etc. Why are people so quick to try and split?

Can you get a babysitter for an evening and go out with your dh for a meal and a drink and try to discuss everything... the stress he is under, the grief he may still feel following the death of his mother, the importance of valuing the family that he still has and the hard work that is necessary to build a strong relationship with his boys because they love and admire him so much that they copy his behaviour whether it is good or bad or driven by love or stress...

Sometimes a very honest heart-to-heart, without distractions and without accusations can go a lot further than arguments and tears. Also may be worth acknowledging to him that you feel very stressed sometimes too and that you are sorry if that sometimes makes you hyper critical. And I would recommend the book if your dh will read it - it is easy to read, funny and helpful imo.

bb - which book? (just out of interest for me, cos dh won't read it)

The talk you suggest, we had. A week ago, and here we are again.

It does sound like a tough situation to be in.
I agree that leaving him doesnt sound like the best situation for you right now. Much better to work at resolving this if you can.
It sounds to me that he does at some level want to stop doing it and change his ways, but perhaps he just doesnt know how?
Its easy to say 'yes, i'll change' but hard to get out of ingrained ways of reacting to stress.

My DH is similar in a sense that we have most of our arguments over our different parenting styles. My DH doesnt belittle our DCs our shout at them, but he does play with them a little too roughly I feel for their ages and almost forget he needs to treat them more carefully. We had a massive row the other day because he rushed across the road in front of some cars pushing the pram. Fine on his own if he wants to risk an accident rather than waiting for a gap, but not fine with the kids in front of him!
He disagrees strongly and says that I am neurotic/overprotective always and that he acts perfectly safely etc.

We never seem to be able to resolve these things!

Sorry,

Raising Boys by Steve Biddulf (Australian)

A great short read, good on the importance of the father son dynamic, funny too. My dh read it (well, the chapter on fathers and sons) and would not normally read this sort of thing...

Have you tried treating him the way he behaves? That could make him see how bad it sounds. I hate swearing and try to tell the dc that people who swear alot don't know how to use words to express them selves and that's the idiot way out by using a swear word, nothing better came into their heads. I try to drum it into them anyway, sigh. I have the advantage that h isn't from an English speaking country so when he drops the f word (which I really hate) I just tell them h never learned any better.

However, what would your h say if he came home and started telling you something about his da yand you just sort of laughed at him or teased him, ot if you started swearing? 'here's your effing coffee darling' along those lines.

Come over and moan about things on the German corner, one of us is on most days so we'll listen. Have you met anyone yet or still alone most days?

I think Turniphead has some really good suggestions here. If the two of you could get into a situation where you could feel you were propping each other up, maybe even laughing gently about the horrors of the day (out of the hearing of the little horrors) then that would go a long way towards solving the problem.

Turniphead, thanls for your reply and everyone of course.

Dh sent sms saying sorry for this am & 'let's not fight' but busy so not spoken.

I want to have another talk, prob not tonight, prob not able to be till next week now as he'll be in late tonight and extra tired & stressed so not best start...

So I really don't want to constantly have to pick him up. But I also can't sit back and say nothing when he's rough with them or swearing.

I agree it's largely habit. He would never speak to his niece like that, or his sister, but he's got into the habit of doing so with us. I like the idea of us all sitting down together to agree behaviour, but think I also need to speak to him alone. Would appreciate help structuring/phrasing this, as my attempts clearly not working.

I think he also just has much too high expectations/can't empathise at all with them.
eg at end April we moved to Germany because of his work. ds1 & 2 especially gutted and ds1 has especially missed his best friend, really a lot, and also has had trouble keeping in touch (calls unanswered etc) so tomorrow we go back to old town to sign for house sale. ds1 & 2 THRILLED to be going back, ds1 desperate to see his mates. I plan to stay till Sunday, to give them as long as possible with friends. Dh says he just wants to sign and leave. I say they'll be sad & want to seet heir friends. DH replies "We've moved. They need to get over it" . He seems to have no understanding or empathy with them that they were forced to move & leave their friends, never mind be happy to see them again. He really doesn't seem to get it. We will stay till Sunday regardless, btw. I've already told him (not nastily) that he could come home by himself on the Saturday if he doesn't want to hang around

oh your poor kids

I call DH Captain Cave-In cos he always ends up giving in to DS (nearly 3) so I end up looking like Bad Momma

Captain Cave-in - pmsl.

One more Q.

Suppose we all sit down and agree 'no shouting' no swaering etc etc. WHat do I do if (when) dh does shout & swear. Cos we've agreed this before and he just goes back and then I'm back to picking him up on it or getting pissed off with him for telling my ds to piss off or whatever. WHat sanctions can you impose on a stroppy 38 year old

I have a similar issue with my DH - he really is generally a lovely man with a really good heart but he just doesn't handle his anger / frustation well. He constantly snaps at his mum and dad (for no reason) and is quite sharp and rude somtimes to people he is meant to care about the most . Anyway we constantly fight about how he treats the kids - he is generally a good dad but just pushes things too far and doesn't know when to back off. He also SHOUTS far too much for my liking.

Anyway we had a massive row about this again the other week and I hinted that I wouldn't carry on in our relationship with him behaving like this. We had a chat and I asked him to go to anger management counselling. I didn't make it sound like he necessarily had a problem, I just said that we were going round in circles too much and not resolving anything and he obviously didn't want to be this angry and seemed unhappy. So I suggested that he speak to someone outside the family who could help him be happier... I also said that if he started it then I'd go too so we could discuss things with the counsellor there. To his credit he did it and has been twice and it has made a HUGE difference already. She has helped him understand why he does get so cross and after he has come home we've chatted about what they talked about really calmly. So far its been the best thing we / he could have done. I dont know whether he would agree to it, but I didn't think my DH would even entertain the idea but I think the thought of becoming a w/end dad booted him up the arse... I also asked him to ask his mum about his behaviour and she told him she thought I'd have left ages ago - that helped as well although I know sadly this is not an possibility for you... If he does go for it then try to choose the person carefully so its not too namby pamby for him. The lady my DH goes to was a counsellor with the prison service so she's hardly fluffy

Good luck and let us know how it all goes.

OK, UPdate

1st of all, a big thank you for listening.

So, we had a talk. I tried my best to keep it as 'we need to' not 'you should/shouldn't.

Anyway, the conversation went well, not at all argumenty, and since then he has made a real effort.

I'd say our home has changed quite a lot. He has done the mimicking thing only 1 or 2 since and stopped himself mid-mickey-take. He has really refrained from swearing, and as a result, the boys are all swearing a lot less. Ds3's mot du jour is 'moron' (wich he def didn't get from dh) as opposed to 'arsehole', which is a big improvement Tho getting his stroppy little temper under control would be even better still, baby steps...

And there have been a couple of ocasions wher dh would def. have lost it completely, and he really kept hold of the rising red mist, calmly explained (something he hates doing - they should just do what they're told!) and ds accepted the explanation and peace prevailed ! I was amazed (and have tried to praise in non-patronising way. It's not perfect, and he is still shouty shouty at times/too much, but there's been a real, dramatic improvement. Just thought I'd let you know. ta

Hi Ernest,

this is a heartwarming thread, good to hear that your DH is improving and that your family life is better.

I went to a parenting class when we were in Ddorf, I don't know if they do them in Bavaria, or if your DH would go to one, but I found it good, if a bit long. It was a course over 10 weeks, afair so there was a fair bit of repetition. It was called "Starke Eltern, Starke Kinder" and was offered in the kindergarten.

Well done for sticking up for your kids and forcing their dad to change his attitude.

I'm really pleased for you Ernest.
BTW I have that 'Raising boys' book someone mentioned earlier if you want it.