Wix primary/bilingual school Clapham

[cendrillon]

Hi

Does anyone know or have children at this school? We're returning to the UK next year and our 6 year old daughter has been educated in a francophone school since the age of 2 and a half. We're investigating options for keeping her French up(as English is our first/home language). This school sounds interesting, although I don't know whether there would be any chance of getting a place in the bilingual section.

I'd be grateful for any information/experiences. Many thanks in advance.

There was a follow up article about it in the times on sunday a while ago now which was about the schools progress and reports since opening if you are interested. Sorry cant help more but Im interested in this link as Id like to know more about the school.

The French Lycee in London operates an extension for primary school at Wix primary to cope with the overwhelming demand from the French community.

I think a couple of years ago, they also introduced a bilingual program - 50-50 English and French but still follows the French national curriculum. French standards are very high. The focus is very academic.

However in terms of a bilingual program, it takes real commitment from parents to ensure that your kids thrive in both languages. Which means that both languages must be amply and equally supported at home. If you do not speak French at home, then you really need to work at making sure this is supported either thru' a private tutor, or get a Francophone family to help on the French in exchange for the English. Most of our Anglophone friends have opted to keep their kids in the fully French section otherwise their kids don't get enough French at home.

Your kid must also be able to keep as by implication, the homework also doubles i.e. learning to read and write in both languages, weekly dictation in both,etc.

If you can get your kids in - that would be great. But the waitlist is incredibly long, and some say near impossible esp. for the younger ages 3-8. Priority is given to French citizens. Although if you live in the area, you may get a chance at a place in the bilingual program by applying thru' the council for the places allocated for Wix Primary students.

Good luck.

Thanks for your advice! It's not easy to work out what to do when we return to the UK. I think it would be a real shame for our daughter to lose her French - she's been exposed to the language since she was a baby - it's part of her identity. My partner thinks I place too much importance on it and that it shouldn't be a key consideration in her schooling in the UK. I think differently - maybe because I studied French and appreciate the effort and hard work involved in learning a language as opposed to 'living it' as she does. Some people have suggested that we hire a French speaking student to spend a few hours with her every day, but I'm not sure that would be enough. The Wix bilingual stream seemed like a possibility(if we could get a place)but Pena you have pointed out that our daughter may not get enough exposure to French. I speak pretty good French, but she doesn't like speaking to me in French (unless in a francophone situation) so I don't think that would work too well. And then if we consider a purely French stream in the Lycée (again if we could get a place) - would that be the best move in the UK as we're both British... Would it seem odd/slightly pretentious to other people?

I'm struggling with this one - any further thoughts would be much appreciated!

First off - I wouldn't care about what other people think. It makes sense for you to continue dd's French since she already has a foundation and you speak French too. What doesn't make sense (and is pretentious IMO) are the parents who speak zero French (e.g. Madonna), and put their kids in the lycee without giving them some kind of extra support.

The Anglophone families (and there are quite a few who share similar backgrounds or are francophiles) I know whose kids have thrived at the French school are those who either have 1 parent who speaks French consistently at home, or have a French tutor/au pair to help, and who spend regular long holidays in France where the kids are immersed in French e.g. kids clubs etc.

The issue of language acquisition is a huge personal project that requires commitment and self-belief (and work!). It is thus impt that you n your partner talk thru' and agree on your objectives with regards to the level of fluency you'd like dd to achieve. It seems that you'd love dd to be fully fluent but partner is less concerned. That's potentially a big issue.

If you'd like her to be fluent i.e. literate, then schooling in French is impt. The casual few hours a day may not be enough as eventually she'll realise French is a "minority language" in her life and she won't take it seriously or might even resist it as it's "different". This is what is happening to my kids with Mandarin - my language.

The bilingual stream is ideal if you honestly believe your child has the aptitude for it. Good concentration, can read well. Having said this, many of my anglophone friends have decided to keep their kids in the fully French section as they feel that their kids get enough English at home but not enough French. We opted for the bilingual stream on the advice of my son's teacher who felt that as a child who was already living in a multi-lingual family, it was a more natural environment for him.

Good luck on your decisions. In the meantime, I would start looking to get onto the waitlists quickly. And despite the hard work, it's incredibly satisfying to see the kids slip in/out of languages, friends, cultures with such ease and self-assurance. It really is worth it

we have a large french community in our state school not far from wix's lane. Almost all the french kids go to a special after school lesson to keep up with the french curriculum.

Many thanks to you all.

Pena, I appreciate your advice and insight into this issue. You've raised some important points which I need to think through and discuss with partner. 2littleterrors, thanks - I will look into the after school classes - I think the programme is CNED and this may be another means of supplementing dd's French.

Just hope that we can get a place at Wix - I keep hearing that very difficult to get a place in any of the Lycée schools. I have checked with main LF who have told me that there is no way you can start the inscription process until official date which is in Jan 09 and often you don't hear anything until the end of August so not sure that even possible to get on a waiting list for 2009 start. On verra!

My children (7 and 5) are in Andre Malreaux in Ealing - another annexe of the Lycee. There is a third annexe in Fulham. DH and I are both English but DH works for a French company so we are in London on a foreign posting! It is incredibly difficult to get a place at the school if you are not French. We were lucky as there were places in CP last year when we came back and once dd had a place ds got priority for a place in maternelle in the rentree. When are you coming back? I think there are a few places left in CP in Ealing at the moment so you might be lucky. Otherwise I heard there is a waiting list of 1,4000 for places across the four sites. That said, it is a great school and my children are thriving there - like your dd they have been in the French system since they were two-and-a-half. They are really bi-lingual and there are lots of children like them at the school though most have at least one French parent.

Great to know this LilianGish. I hope I can call on your advise when it comes our turn to return and scramble for places at the Lycee. Altho' seeing how bad the waitlist is...I don't think we'll be in a hurry to move to London.

We tried Wix last year - for CP - when we thought we were moving - no luck.

FYI. The Wix Lane school is the only one of the 3 Lycee annexe that offers the bi-lingual program.

Thanks for the info, LillianGish. We haven't got a firm date for moving back yet -it depends on partner's job, but it is likely to be next year possibly summer 2009 or even earlier - at Easter (which I hope we can avoid as would prefer dd to start a new school at beg of term and also not sure what situation is in terms of getting a place in course of school year). She is currently in last year of maternelle and would be in CP from Sep 2009. One concern I have about the purely French stream in LF is that I've heard that the system is quite strict and rigid with very traditional teaching methods - eg lots of rote learning, testing and mountains of homework(esp as they get older). At this stage I don't know how academic our dd will be - so far she seems quite bright but she definitely knows her own mind(!) and I wonder how she will fit into a more rigid set-up... But on the other hand maybe that's what she needs! I would be very interested to hear views/feedback about the LF approach..

We moved our kids mid-year - in fact mid-term which was much more straightforward than I thought it would be. I agree with you that the French system is very strict and rigid, but the up-side of this is that it makes it very easy to move between schools. My daughter changed mid-way through CP (February) and didn't miss a beat. The transition was astonishingly smooth. The school certainly had no problem with us moving mid-year and my daughter was fully integrated within days.
Another advantage of moving mid-year was that they would tell us immediately whether we could have a place. My son didn't get a place straightaway and the application process for him was as complicated and bureaucratic as you would expect from a French institution - involving a dash to the Lycee with our dossier on the day we were due to go on holiday to ensure he could take up the offer!!
I share your reservations about the French system, but I would add that while it seems very strict and rigid to us in comparison with our own experiences it is all our children have ever known. Both my kids ADORE their school - they know the teachers are quite strict, but they think all schools are like that. In many ways I think they thrive on it.
The big plus about being at the French school in London (we were in Paris and then Berlin before) is that English is on the curriculum for the first time and my daughter is now reading and writing in English - something which we can build on at home.
I would say that as your daughter is already immersed in the French system it would be no problem for her to continue - if in a few years you decide that it's not for her you can always move her. That is the view I am taking with regard to my own children. They are English because we are English and they speak good English - they are also fluent in French and I am sure that is the case with your own daughter. If we eventually decide they would be better in an English school we could easily support them in that move. If we'd moved them to an English school now, however, I think it would be almost impossible to make the move back in the future.
I don't know anything about the bi-lingual section here in London, but people I know in Paris who have their children in bi-lingual schools say the work-load is phenomenal. They follow the French curriculum and do the classes in English on top of that so it's certainly not an easier option.

Many thanks, Liliangish. This is really useful. The reponses I've received so far have helped to clarify things in my mind. I am now thinking more and more about trying to find a place in the French section(as opposed to the bilingual section). I think it could offer a smoother transition to my dd - she will be at the same level as everyone else in her French, but this is less likely to be the case in terms of the British Curriculum. She'd be fine orally, but would be behind in her reading, writing and maths. Also, the Ofsted report for the Wix bilingual school indicated that some improvements were needed - but of course this could be down to teething problems in introducing the bilingual system which is quite a challenge. On the other hand, the French stream in Wix is more established which is another point in its favour.

Hi Cendrillon - don't want to sound really negative but I have heard it is pretty impossible to get into the French stream unless you have French nationality. You might have better luck with the bilingual stream, but I think it is also very oversubscribed, and in the end it would come down to how close you live to the school. (I only know all this because we live fairly close by and are considering it for our kids, dh is French)....anyway, bonne chance!

Thanks, Tinasan. Yes, I have to keep in mind that I may not be able to get a place in either of the streams in Wix or in any other annexe of the LF for that matter. Unfortunately, Ealing is too far as we'll be based in South London. Fulham might be do-able, but I understand there's quite a walk from the tube and it's probably just as oversubscribed.

It is a real concern - especially as I have not been able to come up with a plan B which would enable dd to keep up her French...

Hi everybody, I've never done this before, but what a great way to get info. I feel much enlightened by your thread (if that's what you say) already. We are likely to have to move to London after ten years in Belgium. I'm a Brit but have lived abroad most of my adult life and find the prospect of going "back" slightly daunting. Our kids go to a Belgian francophone school at the mo, though before they were in a bilingual En-Fr one. So the thought of the LF or some bilingual option appeals. I hear everyone say the LF is hard to get a place in, in which case I'm wondering are there any primary schools on that side of London that have a good reputation for teaching French as a second language? I know it isn't the same thing but I feel at least they would have a subject they're really good at. Plus I'd love to know more about the after school French club (CNED). I'm glad to here there are others out there in the same predicament as us... Cheers for now!

Hi Cendrillon - sorry have only just caught up with this thread. There is another alternative to the Wix school - my DC attends nursery at L'ecole des Benjamins in Balham (near Clapham South tube) - it's a bilingual nursery and primary school. It is fee paying but sorry don't have any idea of how much the primary school is (nursery fees are probably about average for a nursery around here)...as I say I don't really know that much about the school, I think they follow the English curriculum but lessons are taught 2 days in English and 3 in French, or vice-versa. What I can tell you is that I like the nursery a lot - the children are a mix of French and English, as are the staff (if the staff member is English she speaks English to the children and if French she speaks French) - it seems to work well and the children are very happy. Might be something to consider?

Hi,

Some English schools in London offer the CNED for French pupils who study the English curriculum alongside the English pupils. This is with a view to 'feed' into the French Lycee for the 6eme . Any thoughts on this? I agree it is a lot of hard work to bring up a chils bilingual.
Many thanks

Yvette

Have read this thread and the school site and it's still not entirely clear - IS there a waiting list? My impression is that you can't get on it till the academic year prior to starting. Is this so or can you put them down earlier?

Also, if a child is English nationality but bilingual is there any reason why that shouldn't qualify them for the "non-French Francophone" category (slightly higher up the admissions list, I think!)? Would they test language skills in some way?

yes there is a waitlist.

they announce a date when applications are open for the year after that it's a scrum to get there quick.

many french kids already can't get in - so it is probably less likely that non-french kids can get in. But as an earlier poster mentioned, it really depends on what year you are planning to enter, and pure luck if say you are transfering mid-year. It is chock a block in the maternelle and early primary years, and less so as you progressively go up the school.

I thought you applied in the normal way via Wandsworth Council unless you are going via the LF?

Hi - my understanding is that for the bilingual class (28 kids in total) there are 14 places which are reserved for those who apply via Wandsworth Council. The other 14 fee-paying places are allocated by the LF,
but apparently very difficult to get a place via either of the routes.

wow yeah, just looked at the council info last year
132 applicants for the bilingual class!

Thanks for feedback - so does it add anything to a child's chances if he/she is already bilingual (but not a French citizen)?

Also, very tangential, perhaps, but has anyone got any experience of lycees francais in other countries (ie not France or UK) and if so how do they compare in terms of non-french kids getting in? May be moving abroad for work between now and maternelle year ...

My kids were at the French school in Berlin where there was (and indeed still is) plenty of room. We have British friends all over the world with children in the French system(dh works for a French company). Brussels, Nicosia, Hong Kong don't appear to be too over-subscribed. New York and Washington are a bit like London - ie full up, but you can get lucky.
To answer your first question I think priority goes to French citizens. My children aren't French, but were born in France and have only ever been educated in the French system. I posted earlier in the thread, but to save you reading back dd was very lucky because there was space in her year and ds then got priority because he had a sibling in the school.
This is pure specualtion on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if the situation didn't ease in London as a result of the credit crunch as I know several families at our school (in Ealing) are returning to France.

Thanks, Lil.

Thuogh if it's all like the bilingual school - 132 applicants - the credit crunch is going to need to bite pretty hard ...

Do they test language abilities at all?

They didn't test my kids at all, but as they'd only ever been in a French school they probably took it as read that they were bilingual. I think if your child is already bilingual that must count for something.