BabiesEverywhere, come talk to me about EC

[Notanexcitingname]

when you've got two?

I didn't know about EC last time, by the time I did DS was nearly 6 months, and I was just due back to work. Intended to have a bit of a go, but never got round to it.

Wuold love to try this time, but it seems unfeasible impractical with two. Or is that my wimpy side showing? Would it work with DS still in nappies (think he'll e in them forever!)

THanks in advance!

ches, I am not just lucky nor is the many parents on the EC boards or the millions of babies in third world countries...who ALL have bladder control at less than 9 months old.

There are several studies which show that babies can be fully dry/clean as early as 5/6 months old.

"With the nurturing conditioning approach that is the assisted
caregiver method, night and day dryness is accomplished by 5 or 6
months (usually started at 2-4 weeks of age)"

From this study

Also "Dr. DeStefani, the Chairman of Pediatrics at Loyola University Medical Center, supports our methodology stating in our video that the sphincter muscles which control bladder and bowel moments start developing while the baby is in utero and reach their FULL maturity between 12 ? 24 months with 18 AS THE AVERAGE. This is when toileting should be COMPLETED, not started"

It is bollocks that your child has to be "close to walking" before they can use a potty. My DD was shouting as early as 4/5 months to tell me when she wants to wee, which was several months before she started to walk...that is definately "child led"

As you said every child is different, you might feel your child had no bladder control from birth but as you didn't start to offer a potty until 14 months, how would you know for sure ?!?

ECing can and does work from much earlier than 9 months, if you do it.

Interesting, BE. The nine months I got from another study published in Pediatrics. I'm sure you know that myelination is faster in BF babies due to breast milk having the perfect mix, so I'm sure it's no coincidence that a population with a much higher incidence of BF would have earlier toilet training. Also, a lot of it depends on your definition of toilet trained.

The bottom line, I think, is that the ideal time to start is when the parents are ready, not the child. I wasn't ready to start until my DS was processing sequences and communicating with gestures and jargon. I work full-time, so I have far less opportunity to get in tune with his cues, etc. and he's not at all rhythmic so there's no "oh he'll make a poo between 10 and 11 so I'll just watch out for it."

I've just been talking to a friend whose 2 month old is waking up dry from naps and woke up dry from 8 hours of continuous sleep (which I'm still waiting for at 18 months) and she's hand washing cloth nappies and I said wow, I'd just pop her on a potty when she wakes up, to which she replied, well maybe I'll wait until she can actually sit up, which sounds fair enough to me.

"I'm sure you know that myelination is faster in BF babies due to breast milk having the perfect mix"
Nope, I didn't know that...but it sounds very interesting.

TBH not weeing whilst sleeping happens in all babies, it is nothing special.

My DS at 3 weeks doesn't wee whilst sleeping and neither did my DD. Which is why it makes sense to start ECing very young to take advantage of this natural behaviour. Which is why catching wees when the baby wakes up makes perfect sense.

If we choose to leave our babies in nappies full time and not offer any potty options. The baby will stop cuing and eventually become "diaper trained" and will not bother to try and wait and just wee/poo whenever.

ECers - what do you do when going swimming. Do you still use swim nappies?

Babieseverywhere, can I do a little hijack for advice?

We have spoken before about ecing (quite a while ago now). DS is 18 months old and I think with a bit of effort he could be potty trained. Here is the scenario..

I have done a very relaxed form of ec since he was 5mo, popping him on the toilet at nappy change and also taking him there whenever he makes his 'poo face' For months we have rarely had pooey nappies except when he is under the weather. In the last month or so as his communication has improved we are asking him a lot more 'do you need to go?' he often nods or will even come and take my hand and lead me to the toilet. Sometimes he just looks at me and kind of grunts like he's pooing but this seems to be as much a signal for pee as poo.

I often leave him nappy free in the morning for a couple of hours and he will often stay dry but I do have to be 'on it' in terms of remembering to ask him/ take him, he can't reliably tell me yet (for pees, we haven't had a poo accident in months). If he has a nappy on he will be wet almost immediately, even if only slightly. So I think this shows he knows the difference between nappy and no nappy and is able to control to some extent.

SO! After all of this, my question is, how would you recommend I proceed? I work 3 days a week and he is in nursery 9am-3pm those days so I am not sure how to mix my ecing attempts at home with him having to wear a nappy at nursery. When we looked around they SAID they pop all kids (15months+) on the potty at nappy change but I don't think this works out in practice.

I also have about 4 weeks off in december, would it be worth having a go at it then? I was planning on still sending him to nursery for a couple of days 9-1 to have a bit of a holiday myself but if you think it would be worth taking a couple of weeks to try and crack it I will.. would a couple of weeks do it do you think or has he still got a way to go?

Disclaimer - I am not in anyway wanting to push him, we never put him on the potty/toilet if he doesn't want to be there (rarely, he's like his dad!lol) and I just think anyone would rather be out of nappies than in them! lol

Sorry I meant to add.. would I be better not worrying about nursery's policy and being a bit more organised about my ecing when I AM at home? In which case what do I do? Should I start putting him in trainer pants?

again for the hijack, just thought TWO threads begging BE for advice might be too much ]

maybe see if you can introduce a sign or sound for toilet- my dd is 16 months and says shwshwsh when she wants to go, but also says poo. She can then hold on till we get there. I would say that she was dry in nappies before i started her on pants but if your ds wets in nappies, maybe try straight to pants? it is much easier to get them on potty quickly with pants on than nappies. DD also asks to go more often than she actually needs but that tends to be for a poo and it takes her a few goes before she decides it is really time! Bright bots tainer pants are quite stretchy but i find they don't hold a full wee for more than a minute or so before it leaks onto clothes, more for just an initial trickle.
For nappyaddict i just use ordinary washable swim nappies as that is what i have - they are only to catch the poo anyway.

thanks! Been meaning to do a sign for ages as he does use other signs, not sure why I haven't will give it a shot. Might get some trainer pants too at least for at home..

NappyAddict, Yes, we use swin nappies and I pop her on the toilet before and after swimming.

Maveta, Nursery policy of potty at nappy changing time is great. Even if they didn't do that babies understand that different carers look after them differently.

Horseymum's suggestion of introducting a toilet sound or sign is a good one.

TBH you sound like things are going well. ECing can't 'be cracked' in two weeks. It is definately a back and forth process. If you want to try traditional toilet training, I would repost on here and ask for advice off mums who have done it, as I have no idea. I like the softly softly approach of ECing.

We are currently in our first 'pause' my DD has decided that as the new baby has nappies she wants them too !!!

lol re. dd wanting nappies

Yeah I think you are right, it's nice to hear reassurance that it is going well. I don't want to properly, traditionally, toilet train him as he is still so small and I think it could easily become a stress for him instead of the easy thing it is now.

LOL, It is funny, she asks for the pants sits on her potty to have them but on, holding on to her full bladder the whole time. Pants on , she wees and promptly takes the flipping pants off herself !!!

Bless her Anyway I have to go and get DS to the clinic, I haven't weighted him in 2 months and a local HV invited us to attend...my poor NSC

Maveta, my 21 month old DD is able to distinguish between being nappy free at home and wearing nappies at nursery. I have enlisted the carers at nursery to try her on the potty, but she seems reluctant (stage fright?). She won't even ask at nursery, but does at home. I think partly it is the different environment, and partly that she is just so busy at nursery she gets distracted. Also she will often say 'wee wee' randomly in the middle of doing something - I know that this is a signal she needs to go, but in a busy nursery I'm sure it easily gets lost.

Anyway just to reassure you that our clever babies are able to cope with different situations, and take them easily in their stride.

BE - i only ask cos there's a little girl who is at the swimming pool every week and she's only 12 months and doesn't wear a swim nappy. I thought it was a bit bad cos if she pooed the whole pool would have to be closed but then thought oh perhaps they are doing EC and it's not the done thing to wear one.

I agree with you Nappy, I wouldn't want to risk a poo in the swimming pool. ECing is not perfect control and all babies/toddlers have accidents to some degree..usually wee but they could do a poo in the pool and I think it is selfish not to use a swim nappy just in case.