I am having difficulty understanding another child's behaviour in relation to DS1. I am also needing to rant and get this off my chest

[saltire]

I am also quite angry ATM and know if I gor ound to speak to the mother, I will end up shouting and probably cause her to go into premature labour!
During the May half term, DS1 was brought home by the police, having been writing on someone else's garage with 2 other children (brothers, one Ds1s age, the other DS2's age). He was grounded for a week, however 10 mintues after the police brought him home, the 2 brothers were round at the door asking if he wanted to go to McDonalds with them as a treat.
A couple of days after that, DS2 came home and told me all about condoms and sex and what it involved, as the boys mother ahd taken it upon herself to tell him, and another child when they were round at her house.
A couple of weeks ago the same child (i'll call him fred) tried to strangle my next doors neighbours child, he left bruises on her neck. The police were involved and Freds mum told my DS1 at school "Fred isn't going to play with you any more you are a bad influence". She alkso had a scremaing session on ym neighbours doorstep at 2am, telling her she was a bitch for getting the police involved and that ehr child had asked for it!
Fred and his brother have been shoplifting as well, according to the woman who works in the shop, .
lastly, DS1 came home 30 minutes ago in floods of tears. I ahd gone to the shop and bought both Dses a pack of Starburst choosers. As I approached them, I heard the other children say "oh give me one". Apparently DS1 had given his 2 friends one and Ds2 had given his friend one. Fred was one of the friends DS1 gave a sweet too. Fred wanted another one though and DS1 had said no, so Fred punched him in the stomach, and on the arm. DS1 has a bruise on his arm, about 10 cm long and is lying on the sofa, still crying becasue his tummy hurts. he had thrown the rest of the sweets at fred and stomred off crying, followed by cries of "baby cry face".
For once, DS2 defended him and came home to see if he was ok.

Its difficult round here, there is very little for the Dses to do apart from play football, and the other children seem to accept that fred and his brother are what they are.
I really want to say aomething to this mother but I know I will start shouting. Several other aprents have told me that the mother doesn't belive in punishing her children for misdemeanours

I really don't know what to say apart from tell your boys to stay away from this child. But it seems that given the play set up that may be difficult.

You could try Social Services I suppose, on the off chance that this mother needs a bit of parenting support.

When I played out as a child, there was a girl named Cynthia who was fostered by a couple in our street, she was sometimes okay but mostly spiteful and quite vicious. She used to pinch the rest of us until we bled, encourage us to get into trouble and she also used to pick her bum and chase us other kids around with her pooey fingers

It was really quite horrible and she was very difficult to avoid. As an adult I can see that she was obviously very troubled. I suppose it taught me some valuable life lessons in tolerance and self preservation, but I guess your ds is risking getting himself a bad name with the police and that is NOt Good.

Sorry not to have any useful advice.

I've also just had a conversation with DS2, who tells me that both the brothers were pulling their own trousers and pants down and showing off "their bits" (DSes words), and that the younger one shouted "suck my dick " to some girls who walked past. Ds2 denies that he pulled his own trousers down,I'm not sure about that, but when I asked Ds1 if Fred and his brother were doing anything else he said "oh yes they were running around with pants and trousers down".
I ahve given Ds1 some calpol for his sore tummy, he is still crying and the mark on his arm is bleeding a bit, so have applied some cream to it

Saltire, I'm sorry but I don't have any good advice to give just my sympathy.
Why don't you also put down the ages of all children involved here as someone with similar age children may be able to relate. Is there any chance of your ds1and2 having some different friends around to your house so you know what's going on or is that not 'cool'?!

its v tricky i have 3 ds and boys tend to be quite groupy whereas girls have select friendships either you...
a -go round speak to the mum which i doubt is going to work

b-you encourage your children to foster stronger friendships with other children maybe by taking yours and other children to different places to play

c-you involve yourself more when they are at play and hopefully these boys might behave better with more adult interaction.

bloody hard isnt it

Ds1 and "Fred" are both 10. Fred's brother and DS2 are both 8. They don't come round to the house very often, as, after freds mother told DS1 that he was a bad influence on him, I am ashamed to say that I told him "you'd better not come round here to my door if you are such a bad influence".
I just don't know what to do, I know my 2 aren't angels, but this one child jsut really seems to upset the apple cart and when i hear of things he and his brother ahve said 9and believe me there's a lot) I jsut get really wound up, which is the reason i don't wnat to go round to see the mother, god knows what I'd say
There is another child that Ds1 palys with a lot, and he is great,but his grandparents live locally so he goes to them a lot at wweekends

difficult Saltire, but I think I'd be getting the community police officer involved now. Their behaviour sounds extreme and someone has to stand up to them. I would also be taking pics of your sons injuries and getting back up from your neighbours. definitely time to take a stand on your sons behalf, the other local dc's and lets be honest, for these dc's as they obviously need some support.

the thing is ingles is saltire still has to live amongst this family and i absolutely understand what your saying but its clearly going to cause animosity and with young children playing out it can quickly flare up.

could an anonymous call to SS sort this out?

I know chapstick... but there is no way on Earth that I would not defend my dc's for the sake of keeping the peace within the community. By the sounds of it, other people would support Saltire, they may even be grateful.
It's not an easy solution, but the right one imo.

I know chapstick... but there is no way on Earth that I would not defend my dc's for the sake of keeping the peace within the community. By the sounds of it, other people would support Saltire, they may even be grateful.
It's not an easy solution, but the right one imo.

ooops.

Could they play football in the garden instead or invite the nicer boys round for a playstation session?

I woudl do B. i wouldn't go to the police or SS, i think their behaviour sounds quite typical of many boys their age and i don't think either agency will do anything. And you or your children will get the fall out. I woulndt approach the mother either

sorry

strangling another child sounds typical??

just to clarify - I'm not saying that their behaviour is Ok or that i woulndt be upset if it was my child getting hit. But I dont think their is anything you can do except try to minimise their contact with your boys

yes, i think that fighting, petty vandalism, bullying, stealing sweets, waving their willies and shouting rude words etc is typical of 10yo boys in many communities

I'm not repeat NOT saying its Ok. just that teh police or SS will not do anything

Sorry KristinaM but bullying and causing ABH is not typical 10 year old behaviour, not in my community anyway. it's antisocial behaviour and that is exactly what a community PO is for.

It's very tricky when the mother won't discipline her children.
Your poor DS.

My DS2 (10) was beaten up at the swimming pool by a 14 year old the other day.

This boy had been pushing all the little ones in the queue for the slide, and DS1 (12) told him to go to the back.

This boy had squared up to DS1, who told him to get lost. He then got DS1 in a headlock, and wouldn't let go.

DS2 tried to pull him off, but he wouldn't let go, so DS2 punched him in the nose.

The boy then went wild. (A bystander made a statement, and described him as "rabid"). He kicked, punched, scratched and throttled DS2, and it took two lifeguards (who had FINALLY intervened ), to drag the boy off. One of the lifeguards got smacked in the face from where the boys' fists were flailing.

The lifeguards were prepared to just let the incident go. Luckily my friend, who had taken her two sons, and my two sons to the pool, insisted on it being logged as an accident, and that the swimming pool staff make a stand, and punish this boy.

They banned him from the leisure centre, after talking to him whilst he smirked at them, and made throat-cutting gestures towards my friend and my boys.

Lots of other children then came up to DS1 and DS2, and told them that this boy had been unkind, hurt, scared them too.

When my friend and the boys got outside, this 14 year old was waiting for them, and starting throwing insults and swearing at them.

He said that his mother was coming down to get them, and that she'd "batter" my friend.

It's impossible to know what to do when the mother condones this kind of behaviour, and is equally aggressive.

As my friend drove away, this boy was giving them the finger, and shouting insults.

And all this was in a public place, whilst they were accompanied by an adult.

We suggested that DS2 shouldn't have punched the boy, but he quite rightly pointed out that he didn't know what else to do - this boy was throttling his brother, and no-one else was helping.

The 14 year old wasn't scared of anyone, neither children nor adults. He had no respect for anyone, and I don't know how you can keep your children safe with these kinds of people around.

Like the others have said I think there is no point at all talking to the mother.

I would be concerned about your dss being in a gang with these two, because at this age things aren't too serious, but 4 years from now they and the people they hang around with will be the ones the police are always watching, and your sons will get a bad name if they are with them.

Your sons are young enough yet for you to confine them in the backgarden a fair bit, and have a say in who they invite into the house to play, and if I were you I'd try to cut ties with these two as much as you can, and build on relationships your sons make in activities they're involved in.

sorry saltire - got a bit carried away there.
What I meant to say was that I don't think talking to the mother will help if she condones their behaviour.

It might help to get your DSs injuries noted on his medical notes though.

I think I'd keep my children away for a couple of days and let them catch their breath.

It sounds like, whilst your two are not angels (your words), they do know the difference between right and wrong but they are being over-whelmed and over-dosed on 'wrong' at the moment.

Do some stuff with them just within the family for a few days and use the odd good moment to give them some coping stratergies such as alternative ideas for when they are playing out?

I think that's what I'd do.

Years ago, kids would be really scared of their parents finding out what they had done.
These days, kids seem to rule their parents.
If a kid is not scared of his/her parents and the police can't do anything then we as a society are pretty f**ked.
If you do anything yourself as an adult YOU get put into prison for DARING to sort out a yob.
Pity you can't ostracise (sp?) people anymore like they used to do in village communities.
If your familly was trouble then no-one would talk to you and the local grocer would not serve you.
Not enough community co-hesion these days and if we let it, the bullies will take over everything.

where i live isnt a 'rough' area however earlier this week a boy of 17 hit my son- ds2 aged 12 and burst into my living room throwing kebab and chips at my son ....

are you shocked??

i phoned the police as this boy then launched into a verbal attack the police were there in seconds and were about to arrest this boy/young man when the boys grandad turned up within seconds hed alleged a counter allegation meaning that he was claiming my ds2 had hit the 17 yr old (he hadnt-hed merely objected to young men throwing chips at him whilst playing football the lad had took annoyance at this and chased ds2 into my home uninvited and because he claimed this the policemn said he had no choice but to tke both boys to the station and caution them.

my son is 12 he had done nothing wrong we are a decent family and so we withdrew our charges

people like this know how to play the system and even as the policeman left he was apologising agreeing how wrong it was -he did however assure us he would be monitoring this lad but how can kids learn right from wrong in world whereby the law is abused.

ripeberry im fortunate in some respects on that night almost all my neighbours voiced there disapproval and i know words hve been quietly spoken into ears bcos this boy is staying well away from us.

Humphreypillow, I would have made a report to the police about your sons' incident