How to support DD when a friend keeps threatening self-harm

[Peacho]

My DD started secondary school in September, has made lots of friends and is really enjoying it.
I am just looking for some advice on how to deal with a tricky situation with one of the friends - Anna. Concerns were raised by another child and their parent a few months weeks ago that Anna was self harming. This was reported to the school and to social services. Since then, Anna has been telling DD and other friends that she keeps trying to kll herself repeatedly. Initially DD, her friends, all the parents and myself were all very concerned. Multiple safeguardings were raised to the school, social services and the police, who have all been fantastic. It appears that support was put in place and everything went quiet for a while.
However, things have started up again this week where Anna has been texting DD after school hinting that she is going to try and kll herself. DD is obviously very concerned and shared the messages with me, which I have forwarded on to the school.
Anna is clearly in need of support but this situation is now having a negative impact on DD. I have asked the school how best to handle this as I think this is a 'cry for help' from Anna and she is emotionally 'dumping' on DD.
Has anyone been in a similar situation who can offer advice. I have already said DD is not allowed to contact Anna after 7pm to ensure she's not getting these emotive texts on the lead up to bed. We have also told her she can no longer visit Anna at her home, due to safeguarding issues. I don't want to tell her they can't be friends any more, but am assisting DD in putting some boundaries in place.

I’d block Anna for starters.

Agree. Block her. Your assessment is correct. Ensure everything / anything to date is passed on / up to school safeguarding.

This is an important life lesson for your DD (which she has done well to date) to know when things need escalating. And then swerving.

Agree block her, this is cruel and manipulative of Anna

Blocking Anna would be very unethical... Imagine if Anna is your child.

Anna needs help. I would speak to the school to find out if Anna is already under CAHMS, I would also ask school to provide your daughter with councillor support to talk things over.

The danger is Anna might die, it's very real. And if your daughter stopped all contact with her because you said so, it's very likely your daughter will be further upset.

It's a tricky situation. The child needs help, but you don't want your daughter to be the buffer as well.

I hope Anna's parents are caring and realising how dangerous the situation is.

Is that Year 7?

Anna is manipulative. Report her messages to the school so their DSL can take responsibility and block her number. Your own daughter is your first responsibility and this is great chance to teach her about boundaries.

Block.

But @Peachos daughter is not Anna’s support human, she absolutely as a parent needs to protect her child first, unethical how? What ethics code has a year 7 signed up to?

Anna needs a plan in place for what she should do when she feels like self harming, which should not include contacting your daughter, that is completely inappropriate.

Speak to the DSL again. Compose a standard message for your daughter to use when she receives these messages. It should say something like: I'm sorry you are struggling Anna, but I can't help you with this, please contact xxxx/speak to your parents/trusted teacher for support." End of engagement. If it helps your daughter she can say something along the lines of "my mum has told me I have to give her my phone now" or words to that effect.

Anna is young so I don't want to throw around words like manipulative, but she has to learn this is not a healthy way to deal with emotional problems.

Thank you. This is why I am torn with what to do for the best. Yes, they are year 7 so still very young.

I have been in this situation as a young adult and i can say the best thing would be to stop engaging with Anna. This is too much for your poor DD to take on and this needs to be left with professionals.

Blocking Anna would be very unethical... Imagine if Anna is your child.

OP's daughter is twelve. She is not a professional bound by codes of ethics. She is not responsible for Anna's wellbeing.

OP, on the other hand, is responsible for her own daughter's wellbeing, which is being negatively impacted.

Warn school, and Anna's parents, if you have contact with them, that you are going to do this, then block her.

You don't want this going on all through the summer holidays; dd should be able to enjoy her holiday free from worry and drama.

You trying to make a child feel responsible if another child kills themselves is disgraceful.

Anna has access to help. Another child is not responsible for that. Nor is another family.

OP, this happened to my DD in secondary school. It was awful, the poor girl was a mess and DD is a very caring person, so she'd drop everything to talk to her for hours.

I think it's absolutely right that you've alerted the school about the friend. However, I think you need to alert the school about the risk to your own child, and these constant extreme messages. It is not her job to manage her friend's suicidality. The school should have a word, individually with both the friend (to tell her to stop) and your daughter (to reassure her that she is entitled to have boundaries)
Reluctantly, I agree with pp about blocking. Good luck with a difficult situation.

It is not unethical to block. It is unethical to expect a child to be responsible for another child's mental breakdown, and it is profoundly unethical to ask a child to essentially be on suicide watch. OP's first duty is to her own DD.

You need to prioritise the emotional toll it will be taking on your DD.

I failed to deal with a similar situation well even in my early 20s and should have put stronger boundaries in place. Someone i loved would text me saying they wanted to kill themselves, then I would hear about a local train being delayed as it hit someone and I was terrified it was that person. I spent hours panicking, trying to get that person to contact me to let me know it wasn’t them. This was just 1 day of something that lasted a few years.

OP, i was a samaritan. We had 9 months of the most robust training I have ever come across. One of the 'senario phone calls' that were role played by established samaritans, with us rookies, was just that, and these senarios were recorded and were used as training.

A parent needed guidance as her son was repeatedly threatening suicide, to his 13 year old friend. Only this friend.
This friend's parents withdrew contact.
The parents of the suicidal child were distraught and felt their son's friend should have been the one support that they believed their son needed. Despite other agencies being involved.

It provoked a number of responses among our samaritan cohort...but the upshot was, was, as a PPs have mentioned, no other young person should be the "support human".

OP, i really think you should pull back, entirely.
Your child should not be having to deal with this at aged 11/12.
Sad as it is, you have to provide safety and security for your own child.
I do wish you all the best...what an awful, awful situation.

100%

Its also unethical not to escalate so that Anna can have access to coping skills that she can employ not to self harm or harm others.

This could escalate to sending photos and / or may evolve into a context of coercive control (if you don’t do x I will do y, look what you made me do) - both of which fall into the territory of criminal activity (malicious communications, coercive control, stalking) - so Anna needs to be briefed and supported for this to be avoided:

In England and Wales, stalking is a criminal offence under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (as amended).

A person may be committing stalking if they engage in a course of conduct (usually at least two incidents) that is associated with stalking and causes alarm, distress, fear, or substantial adverse effects on the victim’s day-to-day life.

The only ethical response is for DD to block Anna and you to tell her parents, if you have their contact details, that she has and that you’re sorry for their struggles but DD can’t be used like this. Your daughter is so young, protect her above anything else.

I agree you need to put the boundaries in, and it needs to be not a choice for your daughter so she can honestly say why it’s happened.
I would have done a 999 call or call to Childs parents everytime this message was sent.

I would call 112 (or whatever number in UK) and say that a young girl is threatening suicide, give them her address and the professionals can deal with it. Neither you nor your daughter are psychiatrists nor psychologists. You aren´t equipped to deal with this.
A word of warning. A teen schoolfriend of mine (a boy) had a friend who did this. He tried to help his friend (himself only 15) and the friend was very reliant on him. When my friends dad was moved from Tenerife to the mainland (was a policeman) and his family obviously went with him, this boy again threatened suicide if my friend left. He did commit suicide and my friend blamed himself, that there was something he could have done etc etc. He was damaged by this episode and he was very young. Let the professionals deal with it.

Had similar, reported to school Safeguarding Lead who spoke to "Anna" and my own child separately, saying this not ok and that "Anna" had her own counsellor to talk about these issues with, and must not speak about these things to friends.

There were no more emotional dumping issues, but friendship eventually petered out due to the girl having so many other problems.

That is really awful. So sad.

I have spoken with the school this afternoon who are assisting in putting further boundaries in place.
Thank you mumsnet for all the advice

Block herZ

Block Anna.

Tell your DD that she is not being selfish to do this, and that Anna is very ill, and needs doctors to look after her. That you really appreciate what a kind and caring girl your DD is, but that this is too serious for her to be able to manage.

Distract your DD - take her out, away from her phone. Get her outside, doing physical things, and preferably with other girls in a supervised way - sport team, running, horse riding, anything to get her out of tis unhealthy enmeshment.

Speak to Anna's parents and say that they must stop their DD emotionally manipulating your DD.

I saw this play out between a couple of undergrads I taught - the well student tried to help the mentally ill student - they both failed. It was awful. Don't let your DD be the fall guy.