DS eats everything

[Bananaspoon]

This is a problem that just feels like its escalating and I'm at a loss of what to do. DS(13) just won't stop eating, I know that they go through growth spurts but he is overweight and has been for a few years.
I came from a very dysfunctional household when it came to food, 'junk' food was essentially forbidden and when it was in the house my dad/sister would binge eat before I could get any. We'd also be given huge portions and told to eat it all. I tried to do the exact opposite with my kids, I remind them they don't have to eat everything on the plate, no food is forbidden, I have explained how some foods are not good in large quantities. I've tried to break the cycle but I've failed. It was going well when they were toddlers but I noticed it changed as they started school and was made worse when I started working more and DH fed them (its gone back to me doing most of the food shopping and cooking). Both my kids are overweight, they will finish their plates even when I can see they are full. They will binge eat any sweets/snacks so I've resorted to hiding them on the rare occasion we buy or are given them. DS(13) is particularly bad, for example I will buy a 6 pack of yogurts to go in lunchboxes, I will tell him what they are for and not to eat them but all 6 will be gone before I can use them. I bought 4 bran muffins for breakfast, but in the 5 minutes I was upstairs he took another one before he left for school. He doesn't even consider that he's eating other peoples food. Its not as simple as just stopping buying these things, he will do the same with sushi, sandwiches I've prepped for lunches, greek yogurt.
He will sometimes ask if he can have something and I rarely say no but I might say just 1 as its for a meal but when I go to use it he's eaten most of it anyway.
There is always greek yogurt, fruit, cucumbers, home baked snacks etc available. They both know how to cook eggs and basic meals for themselves. But if I've bought something for a specific meal/lunchbox you can guarantee he'll eat it. On top of this he will use any money he has to go and buy sweets. If grandparents give him money I put it straight in the bank. My DD now also hides food from him because he will eat it even if its explained to him thats its not his. Advent calendars are a nightmare, he will just eat all his in a few days and then try to sneak the others.
I'm trying not to get angry or shame him when he does it but I'm at the end of my tether, food is expensive and it takes time I don't have to cook or shop more than I need to. He's also becoming a proper teenager and refuses to do anything. I've already tried explaining about health, being considerate, the expense of some foods, alternatives he can have but none of that has worked, he just continues to eat everything in sight. I'm now considering that he needs consequences, like removing screen time, thats the only thing he cares about.

I am going through something similar although where your child is eating everything mine is never finishes eating anything. I would say they are two sides of the same coin.
I think my daughter is like me and my family where we have very little "food noise" as everyone seems to be calling it these days. I get very few thoughts about food and what to eat and genuinely don't think about meals until I see the clock and realise it should be lunch/dinner or so on.

My daughter seems to have poor interrospection (sp?) which is the sense around being able to recognise her bodies needs. For her this manifests in not realising she needs the toilet or is hungry or thirsty. It sounds like maybe your son isn't in tune with his body from a fullness perspective.

So much around food is emotional, psychological and habitual so I think I would start looking from that point of view rather than the food /hunger point of view. I think 13 is on the edge of being able to appreciate finiteness of money and food so I would continue on that line even though it hasn't worked previously because I think it should start to work. Would it help to get him involved in the shopping and meal/snack planning for the week?
What are the circumstances around the overeating?

Studies have shown that the food situation of our parents, grandparents and even great grandparents can have an impact on the way our bodies see and crave foods. Epigenetics is the bodies way of turning on and off genes based on the needs for the next generation. If you are experiencing food scarcity a gene for increased appetite can be turned on. If food is scarce, you need your offspring to eat whenever food is available as if they wait until they are hungry food might not be there. This worked for millennia but now food is in rapid abundance it can mean considerable over eating. Other studies have shown that genes craving fat and sugars can be switched on depending on the diet of parents and grandparents at the time of embryo development.

I think you need a joined up approach to reset. Firstly do a short period of no snacks at all ~3 days and only making and serving a portion you want the to eat. If both children are overweight they don't necessarily need to be eating snacks. If they are regularly snacking and eating large portions for evening meals it might be that they are never getting hungry and as a consequence can't distinguish between full and over full. We have to do this periodically with my daughter, which sounds a bit backwards as she doesn't eat but for her grazing on small amounts of snack foods gets rid of the immediate mild hunger but doesn't fill her and means she then isn't hungry for her meal. Usually by day 3 she is eating much better at meal times and we reintroduce the snacks. 3 days is also a short enough period that the answer to "why are there no snacks " to be "We've run out and I haven't been to the shop yet" if you don't want to say directly. My daughter is only 5 and with a family history of eating disorders we are trying to thread lightly

Secondly, how much of the snacking is due to habit and boredom? What other activities can they be doing when he is snacking - ideally things that use his hands as it's a lot harder to eat like that! One of the ways we get my daughter to eat more is to put a snack plate next to where she is playing or sitting colouring as once she is a calm place she will absent mindedly pick at the food and drink. I would be looking at where he is snacking and move it to a place where it is a lot harder to mindlessly graze. A short period of 2-3 weeks of only eating snacks at the table might help with resetting this and then relax this slightly.

Thirdly, what is going on emotionally? Is eating a way of avoiding sitting with uncomfortable feelings? Is there any dopamine seeking behaviour going on? Where he's seeking out treats for the dopamine reward of the tasty snack but quickly has a crash and wants it again?

Finally, look at the foods. There is a whole industry out there working on making foods addictive and designed to be overeaten to drive up profits. Studies have shown that you are much more likely to over eat with foods that contain fats and sugars, the body has much more reliable shut off signals for foods that are just high in fat or just high in sugar. It's why you are much more likely to over eat chocolate or ice-cream. The ultra processed nature of a lot of foods is having an impact too. Many of these foods are designed to pretty much disappear in the mouth and to be eaten with minimal chewing. It means that the brain is a lot slower at recognising that it has eaten the food and is full. Try eating a square of dairy milk and comparing it to a square of dark chocolate. The dairy milk will almost dissolve on your tongue and will need to be barely chewed and isn't particularly filling where as a dark chocolate is a lot hard and needs more active biting and chewing. I would look at the "mouth feel" of foods and make switches to ones that need more active chewing and digestion.

I think when their behaviour is shameful it's perfectly acceptable to let them know and allow them to feel ashamed.

He absolutely needs to start having consequences. If you tell him that something is for the lunches and he can only have one but he ignores that and eats all of it, he shouldn't just get away with doing that.

But if he's eaten all the yogurts or bran muffins then that just means he can't have any for lunch or breakfast for the rest of the week? I understand your concern that others aren't getting their share. But it sounds like whenever he takes all of something, it just gets replaced rather than him suffering the consequences of it's absence?

I'd honestly start locking away other people's food so everything he can access is only for him. And when it's gone, it's gone. It may be a case of stopping buying snacks and giving him an allowance for all his own food. Apart from dinner.

Then if he binged on everything in one day he will just have to eat toast or fruit or cereal for rest of the week. But at least that way he might feel he has control over what food he is getting.

Its a little more difficult to not replace things when I have another child to make lunches for etc. I have started buying/making things that I know he doesn't like and they last long enough to use them as intended. We hide some foods but without getting a second fridge its difficult to do this with all food. I've made it clear to him that he's only getting the bare minimum or even nothing for his because he's eaten his share but his reaction is that he doesn't care, he just says he only wants a sandwich anyway or some other smart remark. They can get lunch at school without having money on their account so its difficult to make that a consequence.

I am exactly the same with my 14 years old been going on for years. She will sneak and lie her way to get her she wants.
i need to hide everything. There’s plenty of fruit and other stuff. She just wants sweets and choc, ice cream. Anything she can get her hands on she will eat it.
I now hide all the snacks and sweets packed lunch snacks in the shed on in the boot of my car. I also have a lock on the pantry door now. She knows she’s not allowed some stuff which is for meals teas etc; she will take and lie. She’s never starving she just sees stuff and wants it. I have a lock on my bedroom as well now as she was stealing money to go to shops.

@Superscientist has given some really good advice. I used to overeat in my teens - even when I knew it meant others went without . Not saying all will apply to your son but here’s what I did in case it helps.

I ate out of boredom. Then I hated myself for it. Then I ate cos I was miserable - this formed a continuous cycle.
Nobody ever challenged me . I know you have tried but you need to consistently point out it is wrong and what the consequences are.
I didnt mean to be greedy. I just thought ‘Nobody else has eaten this Mars Bar so I can have it” I knew there were 4 people in the house and 4 bars in a pack , but Id already eaten mine and there was one left so I assumed nobody wanted it. I never thought it through.
I was hungry because I filled up on crap - empty calories.To be fair, this was 40 odd years ago and there wasn’t as much info out there about protein etc but definitely having loads of crap in the house didnt help. Even if he can still get it elsewhere , not having it in the house signals that its not an occasional treat.

Finally, please dont lock food away. There’s a huge difference between teaching consequences and shaming.

Have you given him good options he does like? DS will eat mountains of toast, cheese on crisp bread, fried mushrooms, fried leftover potatoes, porridge, cereal etc, and understands limits on sweet snack foods.

basically attitude of if you are hungry as a growing teenager you need to eat real food, not light snacks. I also expect him to cook it himself if Not a mealtime

Thank you thats a lot of good points to work through. I've never encouraged snacking with them but the school has and I've really fought against it. If they say they are hungry and its going to be a while until its ready, thats when they have fruit and yoghurt but thats not very often, I encourage them to wait. We buy the odd processed rubbish because I don't want them to be banned like they were for me but I try to make it an occasion thing, like birthdays, holidays etc and its part of a meal, but there have been many occasions when hes found them and eaten it before the event. I make/buy things to go in lunchboxes or just to make my life easier, thats usually the stuff he goes for. I think a lot of it is just laziness, he's good at making himself proper meals but if he can see a quick and easy option he'll take it.

Both my dad and MIL are binge eaters, they can't have certain foods in the house because they will eat it all and I've seen my MIL eat meat scraps out of the dog bowl because if any food is in front of her she'll eat it. I'm worried my son has very much inherited these behaviours. He's not hungry when he does this, I've seen him eat an adult sized meal but still try and sneak something else.

Thank you. Yeah it must be annoying. But if he claims he doesn't care then let him only have sandwich/toast/fruit for the rest of the week.

In reality as adults we might eat a whole pack of biscuits if we felt like it. But we'd know there's no more then for another time. So if he accepts that then maybe that's half the battle won?

Thank you for this insight, it feels like he's ignoring me but more likely its an impulse he's not thinking about. I really didn't want to hide food because I remember my mum doing the same but I can't think of any other option at this point. If I leave it in the fridge or cupboard, he will eat it and everyone seems to end up going without except him. I also worry about what effect this has on DD, I was raised in a similar house and I have a lot of anxiety around food because of it. His behaviour is really touching a nerve with me.

Eating more than his share or eating other people’s food is really not ok and shows a lack of respect. I would give consequences for that (not necessarily food related, it could be screen time etc).

You say it is an impulse - yes it is to a certain extent, but he still has some control over it, surly he manages to not eat the food off the shelves at the supermarket? That’s because in his mind it is clear that that would be stealing, vs eating his brother’s snacks: you need to make him understand that it is in effect stealing.
It’s not about shaming, as you said, there are other things available to eat, but it is about respecting others.

I've never encouraged snacking, if they are hungry they either wait for the dinner I cook or make themselves something substantial to eat. They both like fruit and yogurt, they often choose it as a pudding, he likes feta and cucumber. He likes lots of healthy foods its just the quantity that he eats. Neither of them have an off switch and they'll often say they are hungry when they are definitely not. I don't give in, I tell them to drink or find something to do because they're probably bored.
They know that some foods should only be eaten in smaller quantities compared to other foods but this doesn't stop them, they will eat until its all gone.

I realised I mentioned snacks a lot in the post but I don't encourage snacking, I think it can lead to mindless eating. I have lots of foods that are considered snacks, like homemade muffins, fruit etc but they eat them as part of their meals and its an easy option for me to fill their lunchboxes. If they say they're hungry outside of meal times I usually tell them to drink or find something to do.

It sounds as if food has become a conflict zone to a degree and his eating has become unregulated.
if might sound counterintuitive, but I think as a family you need to take the emotion away from food entirely.

You can frame this as a family as having an eating reset and try an approach of

1. Only shopping for meals - no treats
2. Labelling shelves in the fridge e.g. ‘evening meal prep’ ‘packed lunch ingredients’ ‘free food’ being food that anyone can help themselves too e.g. feta, cucumber, fruit and also have a fruit bowl available
3. Lock the fridge for now, but without emotion and, if your DCs are hungry, let them pick a snack from the free food or fruit bowl. You can say “we’re doing this to make sure we have everything we need”
4. If you want to address it with him you can say “We’re trying something because I want you to feel ok and safe around food, it’s not a punishment, it’s a reset for everyone”
5. Otherwise, take food as a topic of conversation off the table. Just serve meals and no commentary. Don’t mention weight, or health at all (I’m sure you wouldn’t anyway)
6. If he chooses to get food at school, and you have to pay for it afterwards, just say “OK, you’ll need to do x chore to pay for x item”.
7. If you can, encourage more activity, but no mention of health if fitness just “Come on, let’s get fresh air”.

Good luck - it is tricky l.

I’ll say it again. Please dont lock the fridge or cupboards. It wont make him feel “safe” around food, it will shame him. Locks are for things that are dangerous not for people who cant regulate ( unless of course he had something like PWS). If his behaviour improves can you imagine going “well done..now we can stop locking you out of the fridge”? It will only add to any feelings of isolation/being different and isnt healthy for your other child either.

@Superscientist Excellent post. Really good.

I don’t encourage snacking. But if it’s mid-afternoon or two hours after dinner and teenage DS is ravenous I tell him to cook himself an extra basic meal. So noodles with veg and cold roast meat leftovers, mushrooms on toast etc.

They can be genuinely that hungry at that age.

I no longer buy crisps, chocolate biscuits, snacks as empty calories. I do make cucumber sticks, carrot sticks, buy little pots of feta and sun-dried tomatoes, cherry tomatoes, grapes, apples, nuts and olives. Teens can have as much as they want of that or a couple of slices of toast. I cook home cooked meals almost every day and they have shop bought pizzas once a week. There is always Greek yogurt, I don't buy flavoured ones. There is always frozen fruit they can put in yogurt or make a smoothie. I give a generous portion of food at mealtimes but don't offer seconds. They can leave any food they don't want to eat, not that they leave much. They get pocket money and I notice but don't comment if one of teens buys themself a giant cookie or cronut. If one teen bought something and another one just took it and ate they would be told to replace item from pocket money. If they refused they'd lose screen time until item was replaced. With 3 teen boys to care for I can't be having nonsense from any of them. 1 sometimes takes something belonging to another without asking and then the rule is no screen time until item is replaced.

I know you said he’s overweight so this might not apply. But my son was quite like this taking food that could be shared at this age and still is really although not overweight.

However I did look into the amount of calories they needed I was surprised how much it was during these growth spurt ages. I realised I was probably not giving him enough protein for his main meals, and he actually needed more calories than his dad.

He tends to have something after school substantial now, tonight was two toast, two eggs, cheese and ham. Then ate his full homemade curry, and probably will have a supper Greek yogurt and fruit. So it’s a lot after a protein breakfast and food at school.

So previously he was hungry I think… it’s not stopped the cupboard raiding for treats and he can still be a bit selfish around taking what he wants but I put that down to being a teenager and selfish!

He does do sports so is active, maybe that’s something to look at?

@caringcarer
Where do you buy the little pots of feta? We love feta but only see it in the wedges, not little pots.

Sainsbury's at deli counter.