Sensitive topic- safe and unsafe touch conversation

[Ayla1991]

I’m so sorry this is so long but PLEASE read the whole post before commenting. This is something I feel very very sensitive about so please be kind

Background first- my DH and I have been together since uni and are very happy together. He’s an absolutely wonderful man, I am very lucky to have him. We have 2 gorgeous dd. Eldest is 4 and a wonderful happy child

I am generally very anxious and this has got a lot worse since becoming a parent. Have suffered with depression on and off which recently has turned into quite bad anxiety and a constant bad feeling. I struggle to know if I’m handling situations correctly

My oldest DD4 often gets discharge and has done since she was small. I’ve taken her to the doctors 3 times and they’re not concerned and it often eases when I change soap. Recently we had been using a lot of bath bombs as she loves them but it caused a bad flare up. It led to me spiralling and getting very anxious about it even though I took her to the doctors again who examined said it was very normal in her age group. (Please let me know if this is true)

One morning my DD woke pretty early and this was a night after me being up for a while thinking about this situation. About 10 mins after waking up I decided to have a conversation with her which I really didn’t think through enough.

Me: has anyone ever touched you there?
Dd: no
Me: anyone except mummy and daddy when washing?
Dd: no one comes into my room at night

At this point I got very freaked out. I forgot at the time that her dad often goes into her room at night as some of his clothes are kept there. It has woken her a couple of times but she goes back to sleep

Me: daddy comes into your room at night?
Dd: no answer
Me: does daddy come into your room at night?
Dd: yes
Me: what does he do?
Dd: cheeky things
Again for context- she calls many people “cheeky ones” which includes my DH, my dad and my other DD as they are the ones that play and joke around

Me: what cheeky things?
Dd: no response
Me: does he touch you?
Dd: nods
Me: Where?
Dd: there

I then checked 2.5 months of cctv from my daughter’s room and found nothing except my husband going in after she was asleep to get his clothes. Before this she was sleeping in our bed and the only time anything could have happened was about 6 months before

The next day
Me: this is safe touch and this is not safe touch. No one should touch you here. Has anyone ever touched you here?
Dd: yes
Me: who?
Dd: laughing and pointing at her toy

Later on- she’s cheerful and joking around and dancing in this conversation
Me: what do you think of daddy?
Dd: he’s cheeky!
Me: what did he do
Dd: touch me here!
Me: when?
Dd: comes into my room at night
Me: ok sweetie thanks for telling me

Later on she says the same thing again unprompted while laughing and dancing
Me: did this really happen sweetie?
Dd: no answer
Me: if it happened I really want you to tell me. But did it happen or are you saying it because I said it?
Dd: I said it because you said it
Me: please tell me if it happened. I will always believe you and I want to know
Dd: no

This was around 1.5 months ago and I emailed nspcc who basically said I had asked leading questions and told me how in future to ask. But even though I really don’t believe anything happened I can’t stop thinking about it and the horrible few days that followed and how awful and confused I felt. I can’t seem to live with the possibility that there may have been something.

I don’t know whether it’s that feeling or the actual conversation that is making me feel so awful and I don’t know what to do to move on. When I think of DH it’s like there are 2 people I think of. I just want to move on and be able to feel happy again or know how I should have dealt with this- I obviously know the conversation was handled horribly by me at the time.

There is not a single person in the world who if my dd said something happened I would doubt it. I would always believe her no matter what. My mum brought me up to suspect everyone, always, of anything, even a spouse.

Again sorry for how long this is but I’m struggling to cope with these feelings. I just want to know, am I unreasonable for hanging onto this and not moving on? Do I need to see someone for my anxiety? I’ve been so scared to post as if someone says there’s something I should worry about I genuinely won’t know what to do next and not sure how I’ll cope

You asked massively leading questions and she answered them thinking that’s what you wanted her to say.

You must get some help for your anxiety and intrusive thoughts because it’s going to completely take over and destroy your life.

Yes those are very leading questions. Little kids generally want to please and will say yes to what you are asking them because they think that’s what you want to hear. She even said that to you herself. You even have video evidence this hasn’t happened in the way you’ve put into her head.

I could go to my 3yo and ask her in the way you did if someone I know for a fact has never even been in our house or alone with her at any time has done that stuff and she would probably say yes if she thought that’s what I was expecting to hear or that it was part of a game or role play or something.

And yes please see someone for the anxiety because it will affect your children. Anyone who believes their kids don’t see it or they hide it from them is just trying to make themselves feel better. They absolutely do and will notice, no matter how well you think you hide it, and it will have an effect on them.

@WetBandits @hugasaurus thank you both so much for reading such a long post and being so honest. I know I need to get help even outside of this situation and absolutely believe it will affect my kids as my mums anxiety has clearly affected me. But I think I needed to hear it

My daughter of a similar age gets discharge all the time. Usually hasn't quite wiped okay or because of her night time nappies or a bit overzealous with the bath bombs.

You need to seek help for your anxiety x

Why do you have cctv in her room? In this instance it was useful.

But this seems a bit odd?

Has she got thrush? You can just wash with water no need to use soap.

You did ask leading questions because you were panicking.

You have watched cctv so you know nothing has happened to her. You have said yourself that you freaked out so you weren’t thinking in a rational way.

Look,at all the NSPCC Pantosaurus information online.

Make sure she knows she doesn’t have to accommodate other people’s feelings above her own. No ‘be kind’. No ‘give Lucy a hug because she’s sad’. No ‘let grandma give you a kiss.

If she says stop about something then stop. Tickling, hugging, rinsing the shampoo from her hair.

Take the camera out of her room. She needs to know she deserves privacy.

Buy some Simple bar soap for washing and some bath toys. No bath bombs.

You mention anxiety. Part of anxiety can be intrusive thoughts. This is what it sounds like you are having. You asked very leading questions. Your daughter wanted to please you by telling you what she thought you wanted to hear.

You should really get some therapy. You have CCTV proof that nothing happened so if you don't believe that you really need some help for your anxiety, if not for you but for the benefit of your marriage and your child in future. Your GP could point you in the right direction.

Thank you all. I’m so glad I made this post as it’s made me feel a lot better but I am still not completely at ease so I really know I need help

I think your questions were really suggestions.

From what I can make out you are putting ideas into her mind.

It really does seem as though you are suffering from extreme anxiety. Did anything happen to you as a child?

Ime if anything untoward had been done to your dc she would /could have given you specific details..
You need to speak to someone about your anxiety.

For future reference I have found the acronym TED really helpful. It stands for Tell, Describe and Explain. If you ask questions that start with these words you won't be leading her. This is from safeguarding training I did years ago - its stuck with me and has been useful when I've had children make disclosures in a professional capacity and now with my own kids.
Also think about starting to have convos with her eg look at nspcc PANTS RULE. Its taught in schools and is a good resource. Knowing your kids are learning to safeguard themselves will help

I mean is your marriage over ? I can’t imagine feeling like I’d want to stay with some one who asked our child leading questions about me sexually assaulting them and then checking 2 and a half months of cctv hoping that it caught me raping my child. When all I was doing was getting my work clothes out of her room. I don’t personally feel like I could ever come back from that

Please get help from the GP. This is obsessive compulsive behaviour and you risk traumatising your child.

And of course, breaking up your family. The impact on all of you could be significant, with you afraid to trust him, him afraid to go in his DD’s room…

Please see a GP!

I think you asked leading questions and she replied saying what she thought you wanted to say .
Bath bombs or anything other than water in my bath gives me instant thrush ,I can't even have soap anywhere down there ,water only for me ..even going swimming can set it off .
Stop putting anything in her bath
And don't ask any more leading questions

I think you need some counselling to help you ..you can get talking space on the NHS by looking online to book it ,there is usually a link when you do e consult

The other thing you could do ..is move everything out of your daughter's room that isn't hers
Thinking about it
I was a very nervous child ,and if someone was coming in my room when it was dark to get clothes,it would of scared me definitely.
Plus he can't be keeping his clothes in there when she is a teenager,she needs privacy then.
Then there is no reason for anyone to go in her room in the night ,if only her things are in there

Thankfully my DH is very understanding of my anxiety. He was very upset when I told him about the conversation but I didn’t tell him the details like checking cctv. I tell him everything usually so it’s very hard not to talk about these feelings with him

@ScrollingLeaves notjing happened to me as a child but I think my mums terrible anxiety has rubbed off on me. I know if I told her this conversation she would be very worried and panic. Whenever I tell her anything related to my dd she panics Likewise when I told my sister she was a bit worried but when I told my brother he reacted as you all have and told me I’m being ridiculous.

Thank you his is helpful to know

I think your mum has affected you to an extreme extent. Also, possibly, you may have a tendency of your own, anyway, to be obsessive and anxious.

The thing is that this behaviour of yours will not help your dd, it will be harmful. The more you are calm and getting on with life together in a normal way though, the more she will tell you naturally.

I think it is extremely important for you to look for someone expert to help you. Perhaps someone will come on with guidance as to what to look for in a counsellor.

Also pp suggestion about her room is her room only is a good one ( but explain to DH without accusing him). And too a pp’s suggestion about no products in the bath. The water will rinse her bottom.