Four-year-old telling fibs or has something serious happening at school?

[BigBubblesX]

I'm looking for some support and advice. My daughter has just turned 4 and has started telling some fibs. I'm not sure what to do, I've always told her about being honest with us even if it's hard so I'm not sure where this has come from. It's usually been little things like her sister did something and not her so I wasn't entirely sure if it was a lie or not, but I caught her out in one today so I've doubted a few things she has said in the last few weeks now.

There is a boy in her class that she has said for months has been punching her and spitting in her face,l etc, which I raised with teachers and they said they would deal with it, such as keeping them away from each other. Then a few weeks after she said he had grabbed her by the throat, dragged her into the tent and punched her in the stomach. This was probably around 3 months ago. I had a meeting with her teachers about it, and I know he has been a problem with some other children as well, and the teachers seem aware of his behaviour so I believe he did these things to her, plus she was very upset about it all and nervous about going back into school. I did also mention to the teachers that I was worried about this boys behaviour and what was happening to him as they pick behaviour up from somewhere, but was just met with 'he has 2 older brothers'. I have older siblings and we never acted like this at this age, and my husband is the oldest of 3 boys and said he never acted like this with his brothers.

So the last 2 weeks have been where the lying has started, and we've also had a new book about boundaries which we've read a few times. I've mentioned to her about asking before hugs and kisses (she is a cuddler so loves to hug her friends) and that we should never ask to see others private parts or touch them, as no one should be asking or touching her. I've found this quite important as my husband and I have come from backgrounds of being abused so I want her to know what isn't acceptable and that she needs to tell us right away if anything happens.

Today she has blurted out that the boy that has been hurting her, has been putting his hands down her knickers and touching her bum and I don't know what to do. I don't want her to think I won't believe her but I don't know where this has come from and my husband thinks this as be a fib as 4 year olds are known for started to tell lies. I have asked if she told the teacher and she said she has, but nothing has been mentioned to me about it so I'm not sure she has or if she has, she hasn't explained what happened? She can get quite nervous telling the teachers of anything has happened but they said she is improving with this.

Has anyone been through something like this? What should I do?

I don't want her to think I don't believe her and that she can't talk to me and I've stressed that making something like this up is very serious and she says it happened. I don't know whether to talk to her about it again in a day or 2 and see if the story is the same?

She has been so wound up today and had some really bad behaviour today (standard toddler/child stuff) so I don't know what to think. She is a good girl, and so sweet so this is all out of character and has upset me as I thought I would be better at all of this. When she first said this I struggled to hold back my tears as I don't want her experiencing behaviour like this.

Sorry for rambling, I'm just so worried about all of this. In one hand I'm worried this is a fiction and how to approach it, and on the other I'm terrified this has happening to my baby.

I think I'm sort of wishing it is a fib because I don't want it to be true, but I also don't think she would make this up. We have always spoken about private parts and not letting anyone touch her and she isn't to touch others, so it's not something new to her. The boundaries book doesn't mention specific things like that either.

I get that people think I'm a shit mum, I always worry that I am one. But my priority is always my children but I just wanted advice and support on what I need to do, so I can do it the right way and make sure she is safe. My husband is one of those people who think evidence is needed just so we can't be fobbed off, but I want to go to the school now to make a report so we can ensure she's safe.

This morning however, she has mentioned it again but has also said it was a dream so I'm just a bit confused. I'm of the understanding that children this young can get dreams and reality mixed together, so I'm not sure if it is purely a dream or based on something that has happened and is manifesting in a dream. I've not asked her, but she has brought it up herself. I also think this behaviour is probably something this child could've done.

We don't talk about abuse specifically, or what it looked like for us with her. We have always been open about people not being allowed to touch her private parts, and that she shouldn't touch others. That she should always tell us if something has happened, or if anyone says to keep a secret from us and or has made her feel upset and uncomfortable. It's not like it's something new we recently introduced, it's to make sure she knows that she shouldn't be treated that way.

I get that people don't agree with my husband's approach and understand that, it's why I asked for advice. But I know he only has his families safety and best interests at heart, he is an amazing dad and husband but we sometimes differ on this stuff. I always think I am a little overbearing and over protective where he has a more relaxed attitude. It could possibly be a bit of shock as well as it isn't something we want out daughters to ever experience. He had an awful time growing up and doesn't trust people, such as authority figures, because of it and no one actually helping him.

With the dream comment she mentioned this morning, I'm even more confused on what to do now. Should I still mention it as it may have stemmed from some truth?

I don’t think families are well placed to decide what has or hasn’t happened for many reasons. Lots of people brush things under the carpet, don’t have the emotional capacity to deal with it or treat it as a family matter. Your child has disclosed something concerning, in a statutory setting where she should be safe. I’d be contacting both the school and social work who have the skill and experience to explore it with her.

@BigBubblesX The trained staff will ask you after they have seen DD. You just tell them initially what she disclosed to you. I didn’t talk about anyone touching dd at 4/5 years old. No one was likely to. I think that’s early to talk about this in YR. I’d allow the school curriculum to do it.

Again, it's only been mentioned that no one should be touching her private parts, and she shouldn't touch others. We haven't divulged that we were abused, when we were abused or who abused us or what happened.

My husband was abused from birth until he was 7, so we are making her aware that it's not okay for someone to hurt her or make her feel uncomfortable.

i guess if people have never experienced abuse then they wouldn't feel the need to explain it to their children. But there are some sick and disturbing people in the world and I'd rather my girls are aware of this. It's not like were ramming this information down her throat everyday, she's aware of it and we just reiterate it every now and then.

I know it’s not nice if your child comes home telling you something you don’t want to hear. My DD came home from school when she was 4 and told me that a child had been flashing her. I phoned the school, told them what she’d said and they sorted it. That was it. No drama. The child had been flashing. It was stopped.

It doesn’t matter if your DD turns out to be lying or not. She needs to be believed until she’s proven not to be telling the truth, not the other way around.

Don’t involve any other parents. Don’t look for validation. Just pick up the phone and tell the teacher at the school what your child has said to you. You can do this!

You need to believe her and stand up to the school.

It’s a strange thing for a 4 year old to say out of the blue. He hit me, scratched me etc you can picture a child saying this but not what she has told you. Even if she has made it up it should be reported to whoever has the lead in safeguarding. That person can have a chat with her and possibly get to the truth of it. However if the boy is also 4 and has done something inappropriate then he is probably at risk too. Good luck with this x

@BigBubblesX I don’t think anyone should burden DC with that at 4. You have projected your experience and now she’s aware of possible abuse and had told you about possible abuse that your DH doesn’t believe! However I’m still certain your talk to the safeguarding lead and SS. I’d prefer to stick to the schools safeguarding curriculum and not do my own thing.

I think you're massively over thinking, don't involve other parents, just inform the teacher or DSL at the school what exactly your daughter has said and then they will gather more information and take it further if necessary. Your job is to report the facts not decide whether it's important or not, then it will build up a picture if more parents report things.

I started school 3 days after turning 4! (My birthday is 30th August)

Did he want evidence that the boys spat at her and hit her? Why is this any different? He’s more concerned about the boy being accused of something he may not have done than of your daughter potentially having been assaulted by him?

Assume she is telling the truth. Report it to the school. Don’t dress it up with “I know sometimes girls lie…” Tell them what your daughter told you and let them deal with it.

Don’t, under any circumstances, make your daughter feel that she is in trouble for speaking to you about this, because even if she did make it up this time, next time she is far less likely to report it. Let her understand the seriousness of the situation, but don’t have her feel like she couldn’t tell you.

@MyCottageGardenYes, but we haven’t got to September yet. I hope this is uk or advice is useless. It could be a nursery class attached to a school. If in uk, it will have a safeguarding lead.