Is this maths level typical for senior infants, or needs differentiating?

[Noramcf]

Hey all! Trying to get a sense check on this- I’m trying to get my son (senior infants) differentiated maths work and the school is pushing back, saying he doesn’t need it. In this age group, how ‘normal’ would it be for a kid to be comfortable with the problem:
2x + y= 10. What could x and y equal? Give three examples, including both positive and negative numbers
my argument is that they’re holding him back based on comfort with problems like this, they’re saying he’s very happy with the standard maths work… is this within the normal range of senior infants? Am I being a tiger mum in pushing for differentiated work, or am I right to make a thing of it? (He can also do multi-step word problems and arithmetic 3 years ahead)

In every subject, you will get a kid that’s miles ahead of the others. It’s unlikely to be your kid for all of them. With 30 kids in one class, you obviously can’t have individual teaching. So for the subject they are miles ahead in, my approach would be to let them coast as that age as it will do wonders for their confidence. It makes absolutely no difference long term if a person learns more advanced maths at 4 or 8.

i would let him explore at home, though not on YouTube, that should not be allowed at 6.

what I see happening with some tiger parents is that they are utterly oblivious to how far behind socially their child is. The parent didn’t realise how important that was until the wheels come off in year 8, the child doesn’t have any friends, and doesn’t want to go to school. Missing year 8-13 is far more important than jumping ahead in maths at age 4. The teachers however, do know this, so let them do their job.

I guess you're in Ireland. For everyone else the primary school years here go:

Preschool/naionra
Junior infants
Senior infants
1st class up to 6th class

And you can wait until 6 to join Junior infants, although many are 5, some are 4

@TheBirdintheCave as if you can remember the maths you did as a 5 year old!

And yes, singing and dancing in infant school is very normal. You’re not that special.

And yes, singing and dancing in infant school is very normal. You’re not that special.

We did singing and country dancing at primary school in the 1960s.

So Reception?! No, I would say that is definitely not typical maths.

I think OP is in Ireland.
Most children here start school in Junior Infants aged around 5 (depending on where the birthday falls they may be a couple of months younger). So a Senior Infant child would be aged 6 typically, or may have turned 7 at this stage in the school year. So the child in question is about 6, possibly 7 now, and in their second year of school.

I’m confused by the school saying they don’t provide differentiation. Schools in Ireland definitely do differentiate for children who need extra support and are below average in their work. There are Special Ed teachers in every school. That said, I’m not sure how good they are at supporting children who are more advanced than their peers.

I dont think your child should be "finding" things on YT tbh, you should be controlling what they look at if they have a screen,

My DD is y1 in the UK and currently very advanced (not a brag - GCSEs are 10 year away - who knows what will happen🤣🤣). She does"challenge books" at home - so like Carol voderman ones. At school she's allowed to write her own challenges after she's finished her work so she will make up little maths problems which I am happy with as it gives her that sense of self study and exploration and doesnt impose any work on the teacher.

Just to add, Junior and Senior Infants are collectively known as the Infant cycle (a 2 year cycle) and the next class up is called First Class. I think that’s why OP referred to her DC’s class as ‘kindergarten/the year before Year 1’, but as the school systems are different in the UK it’s caused confusion.

Have you been teaching him at home? No, it isn’t normal and it’s not going to do him any favours going forward.

What he needs is depth and building up other areas where he may be weaker…and bike riding and swimming and camping and play dates with friends.

Mine is in Y3 and is very confident at maths. So we focus on reading. If I taught him how to solve equations, yes, he could easily do it. But I haven’t. Because I’d rather he spend his time out of school playing in mud and in the river with the dog.

When they move to secondary school, unless you go very specialist independent, there will be limited stretch beyond top sets because there will be 1000-2000 students. They could all benefit from one to one teaching, but it’s not there. My dd is top sets math and science. The curriculum is the curriculum. It builds the base for GCSEs or whatever your equivalent is. Yes, even when they’re put in for the more academic GCSEs, triple science, etc. You have to prepare for the papers you’re given, not for what you wish him to be doing.

Depth in what he’s good at, focus on his weaknesses, whether reading, writing, art, swimming, sports, social skills, etc.

@MrsKateColumbo It’s also good practice for dc to talk through the conceits to other dc - often parents see it as helping others but it can very much help a bright dc to use maths language. When I was a governor, we had a bank of work for maths and dc chose hard, harder, hardest and Herculean questions to give depth. Hopefully your Dc is given Herculean!

Are you in n the UK? How old is your child?

I have no idea what age group you are talking about but I would just buy workbooks he can work through.

My post should read “concepts” not conceits.

Maths is one of the easiest subjects to stretch at home particularly up to gcse. There are SO many cheap and easy resources available.
What does he struggle with? What will help him going forward in school/life?

As others have said, don't expect too much from school as they simply don't have the time given the range of other roles they have to do now in addition to teaching.

Beast Academy is great for stretching and Prodigy Math (an app) is good if they would find a game approach appealing. As you are in Ireland, I would suggest taking a look at CTY Ireland - https://www.dcu.ie/ctyi/young-student-programmes - they are affiliated to Johns Hopkins CTY - and offer a good range of courses for primary and secondary and not just in Dublin. On a side note, the Forensic Science course is particularly good.

Agree with those suggesting word problems, they are a good way to stretch a child that's good at maths as it requires different skills. But if he's happy with the standard work then that's good, would be different if he was bored with it. DS is ahead in maths (not to your child's extent though) and gets so bored with the normal level so his teacher differentiates somewhat (their maths books actually have two levels built in which is nice, the children can decide for themselves which level is right, but also the teacher gives harder tests) but too much differentiating wouldn't be good either as they'll continue to be bored as they move up the years if they're always ahead.

Algebra is not taught at senior infants level. Multiplication is only taught in 3rd class. Can't remember if division is later in 3rd class or in 4th class. Teachers have to work within the curriculum. I doubt any other child would be able for algebra in his class. If the teacher started doing algebra with your son, the other students may go into 1st class missing out on some of their maths knowledge for that curriculum.

In my children's school, children advanced in English and/or Maths were given opportunities to go into specific groups to learn more advanced topics than the curriculum sets out at certain times. It was in addition to what they covered in class. Does your school do this?

If he seems happy in school and the teacher is happy with how he's learning, I'd leave it. While he might be good at Maths, he'll also be learning new subjects that he can focus on.

Thank you, I was confused by all this!

@Natsku Define “always ahead”. Parents teach beyond the curriculum
for the year but often don’t know the depth curriculum. They just plough on and don’t necessarily reinforce learning or go deeper. The school has an obligation to go deeper and parents should expect info on how this is done.

When I was a governor (in a very leafy lane school) I did ask how many exceptional maths dc they came across. Our very experienced maths lead teacher said that, in his 20 years, less than 5. Yes it can be a challenge but my DD was at primary school with a DD who went to Trinity Cambridge for maths. She never spent a minute with 1:1 and no doubt could access the curriculum standing in her head. Staying with her year group and being well taught mattered. These ultra talented maths dc are not common, but in some areas with large numbers of immigrant children there’s possibly a different dynamic. A friend had both sons go to Cambridge for maths and they stayed in their correct year at primary too.

I’m autistic and have a very detailed memory, so yep. I remember lots and lots of things I did in Year 1 and 2. Are you implying that I’m lying? 🧐

Also I never claimed to be special. I’ve been told before that my school was weird for having specific time out of normal classroom learning for singing and dancing lessons and I haven’t yet come across anyone else my age who said their school did this 🤷🏻‍♀️ Just thought it was a funny anecdote to add.

The algebra problem you give is actually fairly typical of a Y3 (age 7) level reasoning problem, though it would use shapes or similar usually not letters. It's not that tricky for the upper end of a typical Y3 class to understand with letters if they're just introduced to the concept. A lot of children are able to do harder arithmetic than the curriculum expectations, but it is a case of being exposed to it. I'd expect work to be differentiated for your child but it's not beyond the realms of imagination that they are working within the upper end of their age group level on various aspects of maths, such as time, capacity and shape. It's hard to say as I teach in England, where children will have had more formal schooling by your child's age. I'd point out though that most of the responses here are by parents, not teachers who don't typically see the ability range of different age cohorts ('What age of child did this work?' threads show this very clearly).

I mean along the lines of, for instance, DS is in 1st grade and his teacher has started giving him 2nd grade maths, if this is continued then when he goes into 2nd grade his teacher might feel the need to give him 3rd grade maths and so it would keep repeating. Would be better to just stretch him further with 1st grade maths, not skip ahead.

If he's really Year 2 i.e. 6 or 7 years old, that maths is YEARS ahead of what's normal for his age. I think 2 things

1. Your son is in primary school and clearly needs a secondary maths curriculum, a primary school may not have all the right materials to teach such an advanced level child.
2. Is ALL your child's maths really this level? Sometimes a child will click with a brilliant understanding of a particular aspect of maths like algebra and be able to do very advanced things, but just giving them the full maths curriculum at that level and they will be lost because they don't know everything for every subject at the younger years.

Probably Kids you tube

You're kidding, right?