Is this normal behaviour for kids?

[bubblepink2749]

My partner has 2 kids aged 6 and 8. We’ve been together for a few years now. We have never had any issues ‘blending’ and when I suggest going off so that the kids can have alone time with their dad they ask me to stay so no issues there. Ex can be quite controlling and has tried to cause some issues but other than that we’ve had no problems in our relationship.

However, recently I am really struggling. I adore DP and he is an amazing man. Great dad and partner. The issue I have is the behaviour of the children and I don’t know if this is normal kid behaviour.

They both wake up screaming everyday. This is not an exaggeration - actual screaming and shouting. They share a room (their choice) and wake us up every morning we have them by screaming and having an argument.

When asked to do something they will ignore DP until they have a punishment and then start screaming the place down because of said punishment. They listened to me in the past but this is also becoming worse now.

They have no real respect for belongings, theirs or ours, and make a complete state of my car and the house. I spoke to them both about how I was unhappy about the car mess and neither could care less.

Both kids speak back and can be quite rude to strangers e.g. not saying ‘please’ or ‘thank you’. We correct this every time but it doesn’t seem to make a difference.

DP is a good parent (in my opinion) and does punish when they are misbehaving but consequences honestly make no difference whatsoever. They’ve had full days out cancelled recently but it doesn’t matter to them. He is also finding things very challenging at the moment. It is quite hard to implement behavioural changes when we only have them 50% of the time.

I really care for these kids and of course my DP and want the relationship to work. Does this sort of thing get better? I have no kids myself so I’m not sure if this is all maybe just normal! TIA.

My DC are similar ages and no, they do not act like that at all.

How are they at school?

Thanks for the reply.

The eldest is well behaved in school but the youngest is the same at school as she is at home and constantly distracting others in the class.

They can both be lovely kids but our days are probably 30% happiness and 70% screaming matches between the two kids and other misbehaviour.

Mine are 8 and 10 and I would say this is extreme behaviour you are seeing rather than being in the ballpark of normal.

They do fight and scream but it isn't an every morning thing.

No it’s very far from normal.
Is their mum on the same page regarding behaviour management?
I couldn’t tolerate the screaming , it must be very stressful .

Thanks. Do they fight over every little thing or just have fall outs every now and again?

There is a very bad atmosphere in the house more often that not which really devastates us as we both grew up in abusive homes and do not want them to grow up in a house of screaming and shouting…but they are the ones screaming and shouting 😔

Outer end of normal really.

not caring about how tidy your car is is normal.

some level of sibling bickering is normal but it sounds much beyond that. Maybe time for separate rooms?

Thanks for the response.

No, their mum is very defensive of the kids and their behaviour.

We are very conscious of the fact that our house is the only one with boundaries and punishments for bad behaviour and screaming and so we worry a lot about the kids not wanting to come and seeing our home as the ‘strict’ house.

Thanks.

We have suggested this to them but they are strongly against it as neither of them like sleeping without the other. It’s quite a strange situation because their conversations are non stop arguments and bickering but they still play together despite not really liking one another.

No mine dont act like this.

Definitely start with separate rooms, and tell them why

'Normal' is a really unhelpful word, because any behaviour could be unexpected or expected behaviour depending on a) the child b) context.

But no, screaming every morning isn't something most families deal with.

It's impossible to comment without more info - the word 'punishment' is very unclear as this could range from reasonable consequences to unreasonable punishment so this could be part of the solution or part of the problem.

Stop the room sharing for a start. They don't get to decide they share.
What punishments does do give out? Banning them from your car would also help. Presumably it wasn't a free gift? So look after it. If that means no feral dc in it then so be it.

I think the issue is the lack of boundaries at their mum’s house - they’ve been brought up to believe this is a normal way to behave. My kids are similar ages and also spend half the time at mine and half at their dad’s. They don’t act like this at all. They’re not perfect- they are still meltdowns and crying sometimes when they don’t get their way but nothing like you describe. They couldn’t give a shit about making the house and car messy but if I ask them to clean it up they will. Luckily though, their dad and I both have similar parenting styles and both enforce boundaries and consequences so they’ve been brought up to see this as normal and to understand how they need to behave. Think your partner needs to have a word with his ex and try and come up with a consistent plan for parenting in a similar way (which I’m sure will be easier said than done) good luck!

Two of mine do really fight and we take a divide and conquer approach a lot - separate bedrooms, separate rows in the car, separate activities often.

I wouldn't assume the different rules at mum's house is causing the issues though, children adapt to different rules in different places especially as you have them 50% of the time.

How are they making a mess in the car? I would just not give them anything that can be messy. No food, drinks, pens etc in the car. Shoes off and in the boot.

Same with mess in the house. One thing out at a time.

I'd try giving them less opportunities for things to go wrong - separate space and separate activities eg dad takes one swimming, you take one to the park or stay home. Nothing that can be messy in the car/limit stuff out at home.

They've been brought up by dad as well, so his expectations have as much of an effect as mum's. He's also showing them the normal way to behave.

‘Punishments’ will be things like no screen time.

This past weekend their behaviour was absolutely terrible and so DP cancelled a trip to the farm we had planned. As I mentioned previously, this had no impact on their behaviour and they just carried on as they were, screaming and shouting, once they’d finished having a tantrum about the farm.

We really want a calm, safe and happy household but we are at a loss. Nothing we do works.

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately a conversation like this would not be possible with his ex. I agree that would be a good starting point.

What do school think about the youngest? If DH isn't part of that conversation, he should be.

If DH tries to discuss behaviour at time when everything is calm, perhaps discussing setting some family rules or whatever, what happens? Can they acknowledge that their behaviour was not good and what they should do instead when not in the heat of the moment?

The school have expressed concerns about her behaviour and school work but they don’t think she has any additional needs.

We had a holiday a couple of months ago that was miserable - constant arguing and fighting between the kids. DP and I sat them down together and he also spoke to them alone when things were calm and we spoke about emotions and negative behaviour vs good behaviour and what the consequences of those things would be. It made no difference. Things were back to ‘normal’ by the afternoon.

No hate to their mum at all, that’s none of my business but we do notice that their behaviour is much better if they are with us for prolonged periods of time. Might not be anything to do with their mum, might be related to the stability of being in one setting rather than back and forth.

You need different consequences. A future trip to a farm is vague concept at that age but turning the TV off or being sent to different rooms or even one being sat on the steps is tangible and immediate.

Regarding the separate bedrooms you commented that you've made the suggestion. No. You don't ask, you don't plead, you don't suggest. You DO.

Edit. My two fought like cat and dogs and I spent many a day with them in separate rooms. They now adore each other but back then the only peace was by separation. It's hard but it can be done.

Do you praise when they are being good not too bad?

There seems to be a lot of focus on punishment - which is one way of enforcing boundaries, but when they are allowed to do things in one place and not in another, it can get confusing. How often are they with you?

I agree - punishments need to be directly related to the behaviour - messy car - they have to clean it. Screaming in the mornings - separate rooms etc.

Also, just because they are siblings, doesn't mean they have to get along. They may have different likes and dislikes, interests etc. May be try giving them each some individual time doing something they want to do.

They will probably prefer your home if you’re the “strict” one. Kids need boundaries to feel safe, and all the boundary pushing behaviour is to see where they stand.

Be strict about it. Immediate and relevant consequences.

Ok, so taking each of the behaviours in turn:

• The mess - yes, can be normal. I struggle with order and tidiness myself, and I have one child who is very messy (drops wrappers on the floor, sheds clothes all over the house) and one who is extremely tidy (everything in a neat little pile, rubbish in the bin immediately, naturally puts toys away when finished). Because I struggle myself, I have some sympathy with the messy one so deal with this by trying to have a place for everything and giving good-humoured reminders about tidying up in the hope it will sink in eventually. We have 'tidy time' for 15 minutes every day before dinner where we all do a bit, which helps. Both kids have handheld hoovers, which they enjoy using.
• The speaking back and being rude - yes, I'm going through a bit of a stage of this with my 8yo, who is old enough to know better and has been relatively well-mannered up until now. I've been told it might be pre-adolescence/hormone-related. I just try to give reminders, model good manners, speak sharply in the case of unacceptable rudeness so they know they've crossed a line and cross my fingers that eventually they'll turn out to be a decent human being. It's hard work though!
• The bickering/fighting - unfortunately some siblings bring out the worst in each other. This is not a problem we have here, particularly. My two do bicker and fight a lot, but tbh they both enjoy it (it's a sort of sport for them) and rarely go too far so I just leave them to it. I'd separate them as much as possible, and send them to different rooms if they can't get along.
• The screaming in the mornings - not normal.

In your DH's shoes, I'd probably try parenting more positively and focusing less on punishment tbh. I wouldn't go full on nuclear or cancel days out. Kids can be really, really annoying sometimes but imo building rapport and connection through good humour and affection is better than constantly punishing and telling off, even if it's difficult sometimes. I have a lot of sympathy though, sometimes it's a battle not to scream at the little blighters.

Yes, absolutely. I can see why from my post and response you think that all we do is tell the kids off but we give them lots of positive reinforcement related to their behaviour. E.g. ‘that was so nice of you to draw that for me, you’re so talented’, ‘that was lovely sharing’ etc.

The issue at the moment is that there aren’t many instances of good behaviour to praise but we do give a ‘well done’ for even the smallest acts of kindness or half decent manners at the moment.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply with that. I like the idea of ‘tidy time’ a lot, we’ll do that tonight.