Teenage daughter is horrible to us: but we know she is deeply unhappy.

[LMAlcott]

Our 16 year old is often rude, unkind and unpleasant to myself my husband and her younger brother.
she shouts, tells us to shut up, has called us all horrible names, often refuses to help out with anything at home e.g. dog walking, clearing the table or putting her washing away. She is often late at college and her attendance isn’t great. She doesn’t do much work and did not do very well in her GCSEs for this reason (although did extremely well in the subjects she enjoys).

the thing is - she is so unhappy. She has no friends at all. She is very lonely. She takes her pain out on us because we are the only people she has. She used to have friends but then was badly bullied and since then has shut herself off from people. We moved her to a different school and the bullying stopped but no new friendships.
we've tried so hard to help her - got her counselling, private tutors, we are always here to listen and support her. We tell her we love her every day, we tell her she’s funny and clever and beautiful - which she is! But she is so unkind and even hateful so much of the time. It is wearing us down.
should we be stricter?

No but maybe tell her that she needs to make her own happiness and that it's not fair to take her frustrations out on you. She's old enough.

I think she’s very young for her age in some ways. She is dependent on us completely and hates that so she resents us.
I feel sorry for her - friendship is everything at that age and she has no one

Have you tried a visit to GP, she sounds as if there is a degree of depression here that medication might help.

Being stricter might reduce the horrible behaviour but it won’t fix the fundamental problem.

she is presumably at college/sixth form if she has taken GCSEs.

I’d start exploring ways to get her out and about and making positive social connections - do a family exercise eg park run or go swimming, dj day bike rides to a pub for lunch. If she has a career she is considering maybe some volunteering experience?

She might like to join sea cadets as a way of making new friends outside of school? They get involved in all kind of activities and heavily subsidised courses - honestly would boist her confidence no end.

OK I am just going to say it!

demand avoidance
difficult behaviour at home
being bullied
young for her age
dependent on you but resents it
difficulties with friendships

What do you know about ASD and how it manifests in girls op?

Does she have any sensory difficulties such as low tolerance to certain sounds, smells, textures, clothing?

How is her eating and sleeping?

What is she dependent on you for?

We have suspected ASD as recognise some traits BUT she is hugely resistant to this idea when gently broached.
flat refusal to go to GP and says she’s not depressed. No self harming, suicide threats or eating issues. Her sleep is a bit disordered but not outside normal teenage realms. We turn off internet and devices at 10.30 on school nights so she usually has reasonable sleep although struggles to get up.

We’ve tried to get her involved in local groups. She was in a drama class which she enjoyed when younger but quit. She briefly did done volunteering but again quit (and was often late and f at ivy think made a good impression)

She says no to everything basically.

Company
money
someone to talk to

obviously she’s a child so is dependant on us but she is overly dependant - she has no one else she’s close to except my parents.

Obviously the more you challenge her about this the more she will dig her heels in.

Does she even admit to being unhappy Op? Or lonely? Has she told you that her lack of friends is making her upset?

It’s a shame she won’t see a counsellor as just seeing someone outside the family who can say “chill, you are normal, loads of teens go through this and don’t find their tribe until later in life” can be so helpful.

Maybe just gather together a bundle of information for her from Young Minds, the Autism Society, with books about the teenage brain, depression in adolescence, and books about adolescence generally, info on gp and local counselling services and a journal and a nice pen, and present it to her with a note and flowers saying that you think she clever, funny and beautiful and you know times seem hard atm but she will find her way and even though things are difficult, you believe in her etc and in five years time her life will look very different.

There are some highly intelligent women on You Tube who discovered they were autistic later in life. One of them is called Yo Samdy Sam and my dd found her very helpful.

And buy some books about female teenagers by Lisa Damour for yourself op and check out her website. I found Untangled particularly helpful.

If your dd is refusing therapy then I don’t think there is a lot more you can do at the moment except step back a little, continue to make it clear that you love her and she can come to you about anything but you don’t want to argue any more.

Also maybe talk to her gently and suggest that she is in charge of her own life now and she has more choices than she thinks eg about whether she wants to apply herself to college or not (but say this in a very sympathetic way) that you are really interested in the choices she makes and you are happy to help her with anything she is finding difficult that is stopping her from getting up early or studying. But ultimately it’s down to her.

This subtlety shifts the responsibility back on to her. You don’t need to be stricter but you let her suffer the natural consequences when she is late or doesn’t study hard enough.

Maybe talk to her a bit about how she sees her future. Grab some info on university courses or apprenticeships she is interested in. Maybe give her a glimpse or two of the adult world - can you take her to your work - and show her a couple of nice aspects of adulthood and demonstrate why growing up isn’t a wholly repulsive prospect! Sometimes our dc only see stress and worry at home and not enough fun or reasons to become an adult. Not saying this applies to you op but be aware of how you and your dh handle stress. Not always easy when ironically your dd is adding to it!

Being stricter only causes more frustration at this already frustrating period in- between stage when she desperately wants freedom but isn’t yet mature enough to live independently, but at the same time op, hold your boundaries. Very quietly and calmly. Never get involved in an argument. Step away when she starts being horrible or raising her voice. Leave the house if you have to. Tell her you will be happy to speak when she is calm.

Ignore anything that is bluster, frustration, juvenile rudeness, or point scoring, just don’t get involved, choose your battles, and reserve your responses for outright hatefulness! Just try and be calm and consistent and sympathise but don’t tolerate outright rudeness because some frustrated neurodiverse teens seek a dopamine hit by baiting their parents. Don’t let her do that.

Also try and engage with her over one thing that she is interested in and that is external to home and college, whether it’s a sport, a hobby, films, junk food, a book you are both reading, volunteering at an animal shelter together, wildlife, photography, crafts, clothes or make up shopping - depends on her interests - just do one thing together that’s fun and do it every week regardless of how horrible she is being.

Don’t turn it in to a battle but make it clear that you will only engage when she is speaking to you respectfully and try not to get beaten down by it. Getting ground down by worry about her won’t help anyone.

In five years time, things will hopefully be very different. All teens develop at different rates and progress is rarely linear but it will come in fits and stops and starts. It just takes time. And if she does have ASD remember that autism in essence is a developmental issue ultimately, putting it very crudely.

Another thing that can be helpful at this age is animals. Do you have any pets? Would you buy her a dog, cat, or a pair of guinea pigs if she is interested? Pets, chosen wisely, can dilute any tensions at home and be a good positive talking point when there isn’t much else to be positive about,

Focus on your own life a bit more op and model having fun and going out and enjoying friends. And invite your friends home a little. Your dd needs you to be firm, reasonably positive and stable, so you and your dh should grab on to any support you need to get yourselves back in to a happier place. And that includes counselling for yourself if you are finding this situation is seriously affecting your mh. Don’t allow her bad moods to dominate the home. Keep the positivity going if you can. Not in a false way but choose humour where you can.

Hang in there op 💐. Although you feel helpless, remember that by just being there and continuing to love her, despite her being unkind and horrible, that is ultimately helping her. I don’t mean indulging the poor behaviour but loving her despite of it, loving her as a person but not her current actions , gives her the message that despite how crap and lonely she feels inside, she is worthy of love and that message will eventually get through! Good luck!

One more thing to add to my essay…

Maybe try and gently address one issue at a time with her?

I think maybe look at the flakiness first?

Without putting more pressure on her suggest that once she makes a promise to herself to do something, like a course of six drama lessons, it’s helpful to herself to do it. and follow through, because she wants to be able to depend on her own word and trust herself. But initially the choice is hers. And she can start very slowly and with simple things and build up.

She can choose not to engage and sit in her room and that is comfortable and safe but ultimately that will become very frustrating and boring. But you understand that she may need to feel bored and safe atm when she is undergoing a lot of change within herself.

If she can persuade herself to leave her room and do something new she will be very uncomfortable but she will grow and learn as a result of doing it. And “success” in life, however she chooses to define that, often comes down to the degree to which one can tolerate discomfort, and if we are finding difficulty with some aspects of that, it’s always ok to ask for help.

Do not bring others in to it at this stage but maybe suggest that once she has started to build trust in herself, she can then maybe focus on friendship with others.

Just say something like you have to be able to love and trust yourself and trusting yourself involves taking promises to yourself seriously and that builds confidence and it ultimately takes a lot of practice and it’s something that a lot of adults struggle with too.

And then leave those ideas with her and let her process that and mull it all over and leave her to make her own choices, which is one of the hardest bits of parenting, but necessary.

Needs a job, does she have a job? A couple of hours working in hospitality or something on a Saturday will make her less isolated , teach her a few things about punctuality, give her conversation to bring to the table , and give her an opportunity to make new connections, not to mention a few pounds in her pocket to give her some autonomy.
Not to mention , it will give you a little break.

Can you afford some counselling for her?

She sounds a lot like my DD at that age.
Scared of trying to make new friends, scared of taking on a job in case she failed.
Absolutely full of angst and not easy to live with.
Our DD has ASD by the way. Not saying yours does but she is presenting in a similar way.

Don't underestimate the effect of what she's been through at her previous school, bullying can destroy confidence and self belief.
My advice (based on our usb experience) would be to read up on low demand parenting. We stepped right back, reduced as many demands as we could. Made every request look like it was her own good idea.
Let her heal in her own time. If you can afford to support her, remove talk of getting a PT job until she's stronger. Don't force her into social situations, they will come naturally at some point.
Encourage her with any special interests (music kept our DD sane and we payed for weekly lessons for her).
Our DD is unrecognisable now, owns her own home, earns incredibly well in a role that she loves (IT consultant) is able to understand her ASD and what makes her tick and is able to avoid triggers.

Thank you so much for all this thoughtful and helpful advice. It really helps to have my feelings reinforced - being stricter or punishing poor behaviour isn’t going to work and we cent ‘force’ her into getting help or joining groups etc.

one thing - she IS seeing a counsellor weekly. So that’s good. We do have a dog who she loves. She will chat to people at college but doesn’t gave any ‘friends ‘ or people to hang out with outside of school.

yesterday she apologised to me for her latest rude outburst which had prompted my post. Which is rare and also a hopeful sign?

That’s great that she is seeing a counsellor op. And there are many positives there for her to build on. I often think that adolescents who are struggling with the transition to adulthood, especially adolescents who are ND, sometimes need to retreat back in to themselves for a period of time, to “pupate”, withdraw, process and reflect, during which they struggle with themselves and everyone else, and although it can be a painful time for all, this “process” enables them to move on afterwards.

I’ve known ND late teens or young adults take a low demand gap year between sixth form and university for example and really benefit from it. However, I would warn against it being any longer than a year and it’s good if they can keep a few activities a week going during that time, either a sport, a creative activity or a very pt low demand volunteering role or job.

And YY, the fact that she apologised demonstrates that the clever, funny, beautiful daughter you know and love is still in there and will emerge again in a few years time! Definitely a hopeful sign!