School photos consent: refusing public website but child excluded from events

[Rachirooo]

I'm interested to hear from primary school parents who don't post pics of their children in school uniform on their own social media, but do allow the school to post pics of them on their website and social media?

I'd love to see what my child has been up to at school. These pics used to be in a private section of the school website that we had to log in to. I didn't mind that and loved seeing the pics. The school have now removed this section of the website so any stranger can view pics of the kids. Now it feels like the kids are just being used for free advertising rather than informing us of what they're up to in class so I've removed consent.

They also post frequently with the days of the events so it's really easy for a predator to work out the school timetable, when they go to forest school etc. I think it's a safeguarding issue.

My child is now excluded from any event where pics might be taken and he gets upset, as do I, that I don't get to see what he's up to at school. He definitely feels singled out and I feel like I'm going overboard. I know that's my doing by removing consent but it does seem unfair when the website used to work so well.

He's going to be in a choir competition soon and I won't get to see anything.

Maybe how our school website used to work is unusual and most parents don't get to see what their primary age kids are doing at school?

Do any other schools break down the consent. Eg, I don't consent to website/socials/newspapers but I consent to pics up on the wall in school etc.

What is actually wrong with you?

You realise children and women have been murdered because they’ve been tracked down through identifiable photos on social media?

Saying no photos is not asking the world to cater for them. It should be the standard. No photos of children on social media. Then they get permission from the people who don’t mind. It has absolutely no bearing on children doing an activity.

You’re either just thick or you enjoy behaving like a total dickhead.

Was the MP thing a one off? Were there were professional photographers there eg for local paper and school could not ensure that children without photo consent would be excluded from photos. If the other instances are your child being excluded from a photo rather than an event that sounds ok? I think it’s likely the certificate thing is completely unrelated, as PP suggested, ask teacher about this if concerned.

It was a lot blunter than I’d have phrased it but while yes some children are fleeing domestic abuse or have been taken into care, that’s not usually the reason - a lot of it is posturing.

I do not agree with this at all.

Exclusion from being in photos does not mean exclusion from the activity - are you ok?

Also - your use of the word paranoid is really derisory - have you ever thought to consider safeguarding issues that you rightfully will not be aware of?

@Rachirooo

He should be included in all activities as part of the class / school body. As a student. You should communicate your expectations around this.

Any pictures that need to be published externally should then be adjusted before posting on social media - that makes sense.

However you could ask for a copy of photos of your DC if there is no other way these are being cascaded (eg school only newsletter etc).

I get where you’re coming from, but I do think you need to balance the two dangers against each other here. You’re in danger of your son being or feeling socially excluded, and of his confidence being dented by the school over zealously excluding him from things like awards.

You’re doing this to protect him from a less real risk of his picture being used nefariously, and in a way that would impact him. It’s unlikely that a predator will identify him from a photo then specifically seek him out at a school event. I’d say this danger exists without the photos as if a predator turns up to a school event to seek out any other child, there is still a chance that they interact with your son once they’re at the event if for any reason he’s an easier target (maybe if he’s stood to one side not participating in photos…).

I do think we should be keeping our children and their likeness off the internet, so I get your initial position… but there is a risk more harm is being done here because of yours and the school’s decisions.

How doea the work for kids who may be at risk, ie, in care. You say they shouldnt be allowed to take part in activities at school, do you?

But the point is, the school/club/activity organisers don’t know the reason, and neither does anyone who dares to say “kids expect the world or cater to them”.

All these activities are about enrichment for the children. They aren’t for social medial attention. They’re for the children. The school is treating them as a social media advertising campaign, instead of first and foremost about the children and their education and enrichment. Excluding a child because they can’t put their photo online? It’s disgusting. Just don’t take any photos of the staff can’t handle blurring a face or taking photos without those kids.

And no doubt mumsnet will delete my comments and ban me for calling out a horrible poster for saying that these children are attention seeking and causing the world problems. She didn’t even insult the parents - she said that the children themselves think the world owes them something when it’s their parents who make these decisions.

I think it's fair enough. Unless there is a safeguarding reason I can't see the harm of photos of children at school events

True, although some of these instances are ones the school would know about. I do think in most cases that isn’t it and it’s become a little bit of a trend to not have children on social media but it’s breeding a certain amount of paranoia and performance parenting as to who can be the most cautious. I’m not inclined to see that as a good thing.

What are you concerned about OP? Is there a reason such as fostering/ adoption/ risky family member? I don’t think there are many predators searching school websites looking for when a class is doing forest school so they can what? Sneak a child away from the teachers? Why would they go through all that effort and risk of being found out when they can just go to the park at 3.30?

In fairness while I agreed it wasn’t very politely phrased I do think the poster was saying the parents are attention seeking rather than the children and honestly, some are.

local MP opening the library isn’t an educational or an enrichment experience for the children.

and I can imagine that probably local press were there so the only way to keep a child out of the photos is for them not to attend.

obviously not the same for the football team/choir etc

The nspcc highlights the dangers of this as:
Images being used out of context or modified using AI to create abuse images.
Being identified for the purpose of future grooming
And existing perpetrators of abuse finding them.

I honestly think more and more people will decline consent for this sort of thing with AI. I work at schools that already have had issues arising from this.

It its tricky to manage, not sharing photos should be the default. School isnt a photo op.

I think the MP thing is understandable - the school probably had to sign permission for photos to be taken before they came and things move way too quickly with press and such for that sort of thing to be careful to edit out one child.

for other things, asking a child to step to the side before a group photo seems fair enough - much easier than trying to mess around with emojis afterwards. But I would expect full participation otherwise so I'd ask for clarity or a review for these things.

What will probably happen is they'll just stop taking photos altogether as that's what happened at our school. Too complicated so easier just to not do it at all. No judgement - it's impossible to please everyone!

It's social media. They don't have to post anything at all. And if they do, they should stick by the rules.

If you read my original post, I was asking what the norm was? I have looked at other websites and I don't see them posting as many pics of the kids as my school does.

It's a small school, less than a 100 kids. it's not a mammoth task.

Take it easy, this seems to have really triggered you.

A you clarify what you mean by ‘excluding’ him? From the picture- asking him to move aside is absolutely fine. From the activity altogether- not fine in most scenarios.

what about looked after children who can be especially vulnerable-isn’t their safety “worth the faff”

I agree. They used to have the pics on a secure part of the website which was great. They're now public and the school are absolutely hammering the socials. They're free advertising.

I expect he had to stay away from the MP visit because local press were there taking photos.

You've said no one is to see a photo of your DS. You've excluded him not the school.

In order to ensure no photo mistakes are made he's removed from all photo opportunities. The school are following your instructions.

It's likely they don't have time to stick little emojis on photos searching out for any children who can not be seen by others. In my opinion emojis over a face or two ruin the photo for everyone. I'd rather the emoji kids wasn't there in the first place so everyone can see a nice photo.

You can't have it both ways when you're making a minority decision.

Also, do you really think a predator will study a school timetable from a website to lurk around a woodland at forest school time and target 1 particular pupil because they saw a photo of them?

Okay, so he’s not being excluded. They aren’t leaving him home while the others go out on a school trip. He’s fully participating and then when it comes time to take the official photos, he’s being asked to step out of the photos.

That’s fine. 🤷🏻‍♀️ That’s literally what you asked for.

I think the question you need to explore with yourself is where is the greater harm being done, him being made to feel uncomfortable because his mum said no one is allowed to take his photo or the very unlikely 1 in a million risk of a weirdo stalking him on the school website and kidnapping him. The latter basically isn’t going to happen. The former already is, by the sounds of it.

The reality is that child predators by and large are not weirdos hiding in the bushes at school picking out their prey from the photos they saw on the school website. The are 99% of the time, your mum’s lovely seeming partner who volunteers with the church, or that cousin who always offers to have the kids so you get a break, or the football coach everyone loves who has the boys over every summer for ice cream and a pool party.

OP small schools are all very vulnerable to closure. They need to have a social media presence to get new kids. The alternative is diminishing numbers and risk of closure.

The children at DC’s school who do not give permission for photos to go on the school website/instagram/facebook, step aside when photos are being taken. The school uploads photos to the above, there’s no other ways to see photos of the children.

Ridiculous. a child’s education trumps the ‘need to take photos’.

not wanting children’s photos plastered all over the internet is not ‘paranoia’ it’s sensible.

Agree.
And if paedophiles want photos of kids, they just have to go to a park and take photos.

Most child abuse is perpetrated by people known to the child.
Unless there is a specific known threat eg violent ex, I can't see the point in blocking photos at school. There's nothing people see on school websites that they can't see in the local playground. All it does is make your child feel different.