Toddler and 12 day old LO. Please help

[Mamaincognito]

My 2yo has started screaming crying most of the night for me to hold her every time I feed my LO (breastfeeding), I’m making as much time as I can in the day to hold her and have 1:1 time and time with them both on my lap - ‘there’s enough room for everyone on mummy’s lap’ is my phrase - she loves the baby, we are sticking to her usual routine as close as possible, she is helping with nappies and holding him when she wants to, but the nights are terrible. I’ve been in tears because she screamed for 3-4 hours tonight while he was cluster feeding, crawling off her bed, just distraught that I’m not holding her etc. she sleeps in a cot attached to our bed because she’s always had issues with sleeping since she was a newborn and has been stirring maybe once in the night for weeks. So I’m patting her bum, cuddling her when LO doesn’t need feeding, doing the normal things I would usually do. my husband makes it worse because she literally will scream for him to get off her bed and all that crap for hours when we try to get him to do bedtime, it just exacerbates her so he can’t help. And she isn’t manipulating us, she is so distraught it’s physically painful to watch, but I’m not going to ignore my LO when he’s hungry and don’t want to introduce a bottle yet because I’m getting quite engorged between feeds. I didn’t handle it very well tonight, usually I can be quite empathetic and stick to the boundaries we’ve set until she eventually calms down but tonight I raised my voice and was harsh with her, had to put her back on the bed one handed and feel like I wasn’t gentle enough. I feel really upset and like there is no solution. We coslept for a long time because she just wouldn’t stay asleep for more than 10 mins in her cot for the first 13 weeks and I was literally hallucinating. We tried sleep training and it didn’t work for us because she would cry all night even with comforting. She’s been in her cot bed for 3 ish months and has adjusted well until now. In every other aspect she is the kindest and most confident little girl, she will literally do anything, she is so independent and inquisitive and has such a brilliant personality, and then the night comes. I just have no clue how to face this or help her. I don’t know how to not be a horrible mum. I called her a spoilt brat and she isn’t, I just wasn’t very nice to her tonight and I don’t know how to fix this whole thing with a less than two week old newborn and a husband sleeping through it all. Please send help

Oh darling. That sounds so so rough. My advice truly would be to get her a bed in her own room, lay with her in there until she falls asleep, make it feel like a sleepover etc- leaving your son with your husband for an hour, then trying to sneak out once she’s asleep. I don’t think having a toddler and a newborn in the same room is going to work as everyone is getting disturbed.

She needs to go into her own room and you should sleep train her again, but do it properly.

I was about too advise similar
.

I would make a deal out of her being a big girl and having her own room. Have you tried getting a tonie box and playing bedtime stories, even ones you prerecord yourself? I think a strategy like “this is a really special sleepy time story box, you can only listen to it when you’re in your own bed and lying down ready for sleep time”. Even if she doesn’t sleep straight away it will help distract her and get used to being on her own and regulating her emotions. Terrible time to start this so early in your recovery I admit but probably easier than trying to manage two at once.

In the early days she will probably get upset or yell out for you eventually, maybe multiple times, go in and calmly repeat the same phrase over each time (both you and DH alternating) Mine was ‘It’s time to sleep sweetheart head on pillow and eyes closed now please’ and that is all I would say after bedtime, it gets very boring and eventually becomes unnecessary because they realise it doesn’t achieve anything but they are still comforted by you coming in and speaking softly.

I understand why you might be babying her more than usual, as she’s lost her place as the baby, but I think it’s going to be even more confusing to her in the long run. She’s the big sister, you want to make her feel empowered and grown up rather than like she’s competing with the baby.

I have a lot of empathy for you op, I have been there in terms of awful sleepers and I’m sorry if any of these are obvious to you/haven't worked.

Congratulations on your baby too! 💐

Edited for silly mistakes

You need to tag team the bath (we bathed ours in one shot - eldest or baby wrapped in a towel while the tricky middle one got fussed)
share post barh time between parents- one puts toddler down - Baby needs to be in Tesco / out of the house / quiet while toddler goes down. Switch up who puts toddler down.

the next bit is really important - when toddler goes to be (say 7-8) mum goes to bed. Dad is on duty until maybe midnight or 1am. Pump milk so you get a good block of sleep.
dad’s back on at 6am (inkess he’s a brain surgeon)

then mum needs to go to bed

This is incredibly hard. I just want to say don't beat yourself up for speaking like that to her. Your window of tolerance is naturally at an all time low between exhaustion, feeling over touched, not having a minute to yourself. Listening to roaring crying for 3 - 4 hours while also dealing with a newborn is incredibly difficult. Snapping like that is a natural reaction. You sound like you are a brilliant mam and are trying to do your best by both your babies. You've got this.

I agree with transitioning her into her own space.

I also think your husband needs to persevere, and try building more of a relationship with her during waking hours so it is fun and exciting to have daddy all to herself at bedtime. Of course she is going to resist the change at first, she's had you all to herself all her life, but consistency is key here.

I'd make verbal statements when things are happening day to day too so she realises what is happening so when she's being given food, it's Oh look big sister is eating, and when the baby is being fed, Look big sister, baby is eating his breakfast just like you. And when it's cuddle time, say this is our special cuddle time, but later it will be baby's special cuddle time and then we can all have cuddles together, then after we've had a cuddle daddy is going to play a game with you because daddy loves playing with you and it makes him so happy.

Having 4 under 5 I would never have put the youngest twins in with the other 2 that would have been a nightmare. I also wouldn't share cuddles as small children will not understand your reasoning and it can create jealousy. Pop baby down or hubby take baby and spend your own time with the 2 yr old. I go to bed with the twins around 7pm on a night, DH is left with the toddlers to sort and put to bed in there own room and they love daddy story time then that's them till I wake in the morning and then they know it's ok to come thru to be with me when daddy is at work and twins are having there first feed of the day, then I put down twins and make a exciting time of getting toddlers breakfast etc as it's there time now...it's a shuffle dance but I don't mind it, you will get your routine that works for you

She can’t be in your room so work towards that. Can you go out or away overnight and leave your DH with her to do bedtimes for a few nights?

Oh gosh this sounds particularly difficult. It's really hard when they go from being the only to being one of two. I think transitioning her into her room would be the best bet. Unfortunately you are going to have to do things that are hard and upsetting her right now but I promise it gets easier. My husband finds when any child is wanting me over him that he gets best results when he starts talking about how much he loves mummy and that talking about me and how wonderful I am is a big help.

Also Is it possible for you to pump some milk just in case? That way at toddlers bedtime your husband can give a bottle? I combi fed (bottle and boob) my 2nd and 3rd due to bedtime routines and it worked well. Meant that husband could have milk if necessary when he was down stairs with our daughter and I could be upstairs (or as time went on) out and about with our eldest/elder ones. It does get easier I promise!

And I am also a teacher and we have a rule! No new strategy works straight away! You've got to stick it out for at least 2 weeks before you try something different 🤗. Kids to take time to adjust - you've got this!

Lots of love

I'd come at this from a different angle... what would get everyone the maximum possible amount of sleep? Your toddler has just had their whole world blown apart, as far as they are concerned (although of course having a new sibling is going to be fabulous for them in the long run). It'll hit much worse at night, and feel much worse to you because of the sleep deprivation.

If DH can't do anything useful to help at night, could he at least sleep elsewhere? Leaving you in the middle of the bed, with safe cosleeping arrangements for the baby (you in warm PJs, no covers etc near the baby) and toddler on the other side of you? I know it'll feel like a step backwards for now, but your toddler will eventually be happy to sleep on her own. It just doesn't seem like that time is now.

Sending strength, you must be absolutely on your knees.

From somebody whose DD couldn't sleep without her mum until she was 14 years old - but even she still got there in the end!

Your husband needs to put his big boy pants on and parent. This is completely a problem of him not being fully present and engaged with her as a parent up until now. And him ‘making it worse’ is simply him tossing it back in your face to make it your problem.

At 12 days old, your Dh is still on paternity leave, yes? There really shouldn’t be helping with nappies and your toddler screaming while you’re feeding and everyone trying to squeeze into your lap. Your dd should be out having fun days with her dad and going on walks with her dad and baby while you get an hour of sleep. Dad should be well versed at doing her bedtime every night and can co-sleep to settle her back to bed if she wakes during the night.

When we had our 2nd, basically we each took one. We did trade off. It’s not that I ignored dd after that. But Dh became her go to person, he got her up for the day and dressed, did her breakfast while I was feeding baby, he took them both out to do something in the garden or he’d take dd to the park as soon as he got back from work, he did both of their bath times, he did dd’s bedtime, he did all night wakings with dd so I could focus on feeding baby. For the first 6 weeks or so, he also had the baby from dd’s bedtime until about 1am so I could sleep. He settled dd back to sleep with baby in the sling. He was fully present enough that it meant it was no big deal for him to take over when she needed something.

Does she like reading with you? Create a bedtime book for her, with pictures of her in her bed and create a narrative using lots of positive phrases about her being a big girl and sleeping in her own bed, etc. along with how much you love her and you're proud of her for doing so. Read it with her every day so she's getting that message reinforced, and when she's struggling you can keep using the same phrases from the text - she's getting a consistent message and having a few phrases to repeat might help you if she's having a particularly tough night.

How are you this morning @Mamaincognito?

She is demonstrating her jealousy which is only natural. As it was put to me, how would you feel if your DH brought home another woman and said we are all going to live together. However, there are two important things to remember: firstly, it will pass and secondly, it is much healthier for her to show her jealousy rather than suppress it because that would warp her personality and damage your family later on.

Oh gosh this sounds brutal. Two things that spring to mind…. As others have mentioned - I would suggest she needs to in her own bed / cot in her own room. Also I would try and knock her out with fresh air and exercise, stimulation etc in the day so she’s as tired as possibly come night time. You will get through this!