4 Y.O tantrum/meltdowns

[LemonLimePies]

I’m just seeking some advice, perhaps reassurance that tantrums are ’normal’/typical still for 4 year olds?

For context, my daughter has just turned 4 this month. We’ve never really had any issues with her regarding tantrums. Maybe a handful when she was 2 (usually related to not wanting to be in her car seat) and a few more when she was 3 (usually linked to her Dad being away for the first time and pooing on the toilet - chronic constipation/pain fear cycle so with holding pooing and then getting distressed at needing to go) However, these past 2 weeks since turning 4 have been really challenging.
Lots more triggers; not wanting to leave the house, not wanting to go home, not wanting to wee/poo, not being able to take something home from nursery etc. She keeps saying she doesn’t want to be 4 - she wants to be 3 again. She doesn’t want to go to school for 5 days. That will be forever etc.

I thought they got less frequent as the years go by but we seem to be going the opposite way!

Any thought gratefully appreciated!

Is she low level ill? Snotty or waking at night (ear pain)? Emotions run high when they are under the weather.

Yes actually!!!!! She’s had a stuffy nose the past few days. Shes needed a nap some afternoons to make up for crap nighttime sleep - quite disturbed/tossing and turning etc. she’s also been withholding a poo for a couple of days as she was scared of it hurting (real vicious cycle due to chronic constipation since being a baby - managed with prunes and Laxido but is still an ongoing battle to help her overcome the mental barrier to it /anticipation of pain etc).

In that case I'd say this is all illness related rather than a behavioural shift. It's really hard when they are like this because it's harder to be sympathetic than when they are flat out and obviously ill. But she's sick, doesn't feel great, and is not regulating her behaviour as a result. Do you have movicol or similar from the GP? Be good to at least get the constipation under control so it's one less thing to think about.

Other than that, let her nap, but then also add in early nights. When my four year old is a bit ill he may or may not nap, but will go to bed at 5pm. Feels insane, but he needs it.

Tantrums still very normal for four year olds, sounds like transitions / demands are the recent triggers (eg leaving house/nursery etc). Probs doing it already but giving warning before leaving the house, of order of what’s happening when etc.. Turning 4 is a big deal as it comes with school/growing up and being more apart from you most likely.

May be unlikely and I will be accused of jumping on the neurodiversity wagon prematurely, but are there any other features of that such as sensory issues/ friendships, etc? My 4yo girl (autistic but not yet diagnosed!) struggles with withholding poo (common in ASD) and the other triggers you mention, this is as she has drive for autonomy and control (PDA) so demands placed upon her such as having to leave, internal demand of pooing, etc, cause a fight/flight response. As I said probs not the case for you but could be one to keep an eye on if there are any other indicators.

Really hope things settle soon!

Mine gets low bloody sugar and has massive tantrums if she's too hungry. I have to keep quite an eye on making sure she eats and drinks enough. Re: constipation - mine struggled with it as well and she has quite a lot of different dried fruit for her pudding which helps. I know you mentioned prunes already, but introducing mine to quote a variety of really yummy dried fruit and her just eating it daily has really helped us.

Yes we were on a regime of Laxido and prunes. She’s about 80% better with not withholding pooing now but it’s 3 steps forward and then 1 step back etc. I think it hurt her for so long that it’s turned into a really significant phobia. It’s taking time to unpick.

I do wish these kids came with a manual as it’s so hard trying to gauge what’s going on / how typical something is etc.

It’s interesting you mentioning about ND. Nursery have hinted there might be something there. As parents were really unsure what’s just typical 4 year old behaviour and what might be potential ND. Nursery mostly point out Emotional Dysregulation issues (needs adult input to manage emotions) and difficulty sustaining imaginary play with friends if it’s something she’s not interested in do example (e.g. playing mummy’s and daddy’s - she will do it for a bit and then will go off and do her own thing rather than carry on doing something she’s not interested in for example). No issues with playing tag/chase etc. Socialising does take a lot out of her… especially big groups. She has a larger social battery and finds it easier to ‘make and sustain friends/playing etc’ if it’s one on one.

She doesn’t really have sensory issues - she didn’t like the hand dryers for a while but now she’s ’undergoing astronaut training and needs to get used to hand dryers’ she’s fine with them. No issues with hairdryers or other noisy things. She’s a fussy eater but not out of the realms of other kids.

I do find it hard with ND as I also struggled with big feelings and restricted eating as a kid and I’m fairly sure I’m NT so I really do go back and forth about what’s typical behaviour for a 4 year old and what’s outside the norm. How do you know/or suspect ND with your child if you don’t mind me asking?

She’s mostly fine with transitions and/or disappointments so if there’s short notice change of plans (e.g. can’t go out due to the weather etc) she’s accepting of it and happy with alternatives. But it does seem to be much harder for her when she’s tried, ill or needs a poo. Sometimes she doesn’t want to go into nursery and it’s a battle but some times she goes in fine.

Sorry that’s probably way too much info to read! Does that sound like how your child presents?

I probably should have said that she’s only recently given up her dummy. She had it for overnight sleep. She had it way longer than we’d intended but there never seemed a ‘good time’ due to building works, siblings being born and bereavements etc. So we did it on her 4th birthday as part of her ‘growing up’ blah blah blah. I think it was possibly a major parenting fail!

ooo fab suggestion thank you! She eats lots of fresh fruit BUT I think she’d love dried fruit so I’ll bring that in to see if it helps.

I think all of that sounds like a normal 4yo to be honest. Why nursery think she should keep playing an imaginary game she has no interest in is beyond me... We all know how tedious it can be to play these games! It makes much more sense for her to go off and do something else I'd say if it's not a game she's interested in.
It sounds like she can cope with the challenges of day to day life really well when she's not ill or constipated. Which is much like most adults. As soon as we have other stressors going on then the little things become much harder and we all get snappier.

Sorry for the slow reply. I agree nothing sounds like a major flag, but autism can come across differently with girls, so might just be one to keep an eye on. Wouldn’t say not loving imaginary play is a concern (my likely autistic girl absolutely loves it, but is very controlling and has to dictate exactly what the other person does!).
As you asked what the signs were here- my daughter is v sensitive to noise, struggles socialising in groups, is very socially driven and wants to see people all the time but finds it hard when in certain situations, but masks at nursery/school then unravels a bit when home (explosive / angry and controlling); she is also super creative, quite literal (eg you have to clarify something is ‘pretend’ when it seems so obvious, esp as she’s intelligent), as some examples. Things are significantly calmer since parenting her with a PDA lens (look into autistic girls and also PDA!). But every ND child is different, and I agree nothing major flagging but just something to be mindful of as she gets older.
All the best!

It sounds like your daughter might be poorly/under the weather, especially with her disturbed stools. And that might be making her extra grizzly and pernickety.

I'd get her checked over at the GP