Worried about nearly 4 year old’s social skills

[aurorasnorealis]

I have no idea if this in the normal realms of 3.5 year old behaviour. I would definitely be more concerned if she was a year older. But is my eldest and I have no intimate knowledge of this stage to act as comparison.

My DD goes to part time preschool, a regular creche at our gym and also does two ‘activities’. We have also been at parks, playgroups, library times since she was tiny. We have two big families who are involved with her. She is very well ‘socialised’. She is also bilingual in case that is relevant?

At preschool, I have been concerned for a while because she only plays with one child who is completely passive (I have witnessed this on play dates and know mum well). I have asked some names of other playmates and she is saying variations of ‘’no, they don’t like it when I scream’ or ‘no, they don’t like it when I spoil their game’ or ‘no, they don’t like it when I come and shout poo poo at them’

I have witnessed these sort of behaviours before, where she has just been in soft play screaming ‘poo poo wee wee’ at other kids, which of course- they think is pretty bloody odd and not amusing at all.

i have a loooong background in teaching so i have tried to do social stories on the subject of people not liking shouting/people not liking to talk about poo- and she says ‘well, I like to smell it’ 🥴 or something similar.

She is so articulate and will strike up conversations with adults about their jobs (!), the weather and ask questions about their babies. I have also seen her play beautifully and carefully with tiny ones, handing toys and doing a little teacher voice to point out the colours and the textures.

Has met all milestones so far. But I am really worried about her relationships with peers. She’s desperate for play dates and a best friend, but apart from this one child who doesn’t even speak to her- it seems like she plays with no one; and she can articulate its from spoiling games/shouting poo poo/screaming in their ears ☹️

Is this normal for a 3.5 year old?

Her nursery have expressed no social concerns to me and she has good relationships with the adults.

@aurorasnorealis I am a speech and language therapist and diagnose autism for a living. It does sound a bit odd but wouldn't be enough in isolation to warrant further exploration. How does she play with you? Can she initiate play or join in with your ideas or is it simply an issue when playing with children?

She plays beautifully with me.

Lovely imagination. Brings in her own experiences. Likes role play- holidays, babies, building worlds with magnatiles. Tells me about everything. Initiates play with younger sibling- playing dogs (pretending he’s a puppy), building bricks and letting him destroy her towers, acting out baby rhyme time with him.

this is why I am struggling- I have a very articulate, clever and kind little girl. She is so good with adults and little ones. But with peers and slightly older kids she descends into just screaming or shouting ‘poo poo sushi’ during any free play

no issues at swimming and gymnastics, only when it’s an open play scenario.

My 4 year old would think it was hilarious and amazing if someone shouted poo poo at her in a soft play!

Your little one is only tiny and still working this stuff out. I’m sure she’ll find her people soon!

She must be getting some kind of reinforcement of those behaviours, even if it's negative attention. Maybe she's got herself into a cycle where it's now the only way she knows to interact with peers and has become part of her self image. Could you find a way to scaffold her play a bit - eg some very structured 1:1 playdates where you get involved to model and support appropriate play. Then she gets to experience success and build up her confidence / self image, as well as play ideas and skills.

She’s only 3.5 and nursery have no social concerns. It takes a while for some kids to learn to play with other children properly. I’d monitor it and keep taking her to social places, but not worry too much about it unless it doesn’t improve when she’s a bit older.

Is she bossy? It's often the case that bossy kids like playing with younger kids (who will do what they're told) and adults (who will humour them and do what they're told). Do you ever push back when you play with her? Do you try and contribute an idea?

What does she say when you ask her why she shouts poo poo or ruins other people's games?

this is a good idea, thank you.

i do have a few friends with similar aged kids who I can reach out to and be quite open that I need to scaffold the play

me and DH are just at a loss at where this has come from though. We have a calm home, we play with her, lots and lots of positive attention. And like I said, we see a very bright girl with a very good vocabulary and so many good ideas.

so it’s horrible to see kids literally running away from her. we are worried about her having no friends. It breaks our heart. But we are trying not to project!

No she isn’t bossy. She can actually be incredibly passive if a child initially shows interest in her before she’s had a chance to scream poo poo on toast. Think giving them all the toys and her special dolly and all the colouring pencils, and playing whatever they want. She’s keen to be liked.

She brings babies toys from the baby toy area and singing them pat-a-cake. She’s not directing them in play.

and with adults? She’s a bit precocious with asking strangers questions but with us she is just fine to be around adults. She sits there listening and will contribute something relatively on subject. She’s not one of those kids who will be trying to show the dinner party their handstands, if that makes sense.

This is why we are stumped. Every scenario with other 3-10 year olds just brings out the screaming poo poo wee wee monster.

My husband is convinced it’s nursery but clearly they don’t like it there either

Completely agree with scaffolding and practising players with others in a safe space. Good luck! I doubt this will last, she'll hopefully mature out of it quite quickly

I think some of it is probably just the age - my 2.5 year old has just started occasionally threatening to eat his poo poo (he never touches it thank god) but it seems to clearly be something he picked up from other kids at nursery. Don't have clear answers as parenting toddlers feels like walking blindly through a snowstorm sometimes but when they do something that is not dangerous/too serious but is also not acceptable social behaviour I try to redirect them strongly but calmly (to avoid too much negative attention) and very consistently. That would look like every time it happens being "No, X, that isn't a nice thing to say to someone and look, the other kid isn't enjoying it/doesn't want to play when you do it. If you want to play with them why don't you do something they may enjoy like pretend to dinosaurs in the jungle...". Don't know if that's the answer but at least with my kids I tend to be calm but very very clear!

My uneducated guess is that the poo poo wee wee is joke between her and her nursery friend. If she spends most of her nursery time with this one friend and they both think it's the most hilarious thing ever she simply won't understand why others don't get the joke.

My DS was a bit the same at that age with making silly faces. With two of his friends at nursery they seemed to spend all day trying to make eachother laugh by making silly faces. There all 4 now and still do it sometimes but not nearly as much.

Might be worth asking the nursery to encourage her to play with others a bit more. I did that when my DS was 3 and had made his first real friend at nursery. They would spend all day with just eachother and he showed no interest in playing with anyone else. I didn't want them separate but just given the opportunity to play with others occasionally. So when the kids did small group activities the nursery would put them is separate groups. This worked really well and soon he started playing with more of the other kids, even though the first kid is still his best friend.

Her friend is more developmentally in line with a two year old so I think between them play may look like silly faces, silly words when at nursery

But I honestly haven’t seen the poo poo wee wee stuff when I’ve had them for play dates. They honestly just run in circles or she’ll make them dens or he watches whatever she’s doing (she tries to include him in a nice way, not bossy, making food from the toy kitchen and giving him a plate)

I think I need to speak to nursery and see what they think

reassuring to hear your son went through a similar phase