3 year old unwell and lethargic - Husband thinks a trip to A&E is needed but I feel staying at home is best. Please help and advise

[Biosblbay]

Our 3 year old has been very unwell since Saturday late night/ early hours Sunday. He hasn’t eaten since Saturday late afternoon, refuses everything, won’t eat yogurt, toast, ice cream, no fruit, nothing, but he is drinking plenty of water. His temperature is very up and down, currently it’s 37.5. He won’t take calpol, as per my previous post it is impossible and tried every single method and way possible! He hasn’t moved in 2 days, when he tries to get up he just lays straight back down, hardly talking, sleeping lots, but still watching TV/ films and able to focus on that (not sure if this is classed as lethargic). My husband is really concerned he isn’t eating, I am not as concerned as he is drinking water still and we are only on day 2, tomorrow will be day 3. I would rather avoid A&E if it is not necessary, I don’t want to spread whatever our son has and do not want to make him feel worse.

Can I have some others input please on what is best. A little unsure what to do. Thank you

Oh definitely. I’ve always given pure apple juice if mine haven’t been well but I only knew to do this after I had a scare with a severe sickness bug when my youngest was a baby, and they fed it to her in a syringe

I don't much trust 111 to ge honest. I remember DS waking in the night with a very high temp when he was 9 years old . He had complained of not feeling very well just before bedtime but seemed ok overall until he woke in the middle of the night

I gave him calpol but it only came down by a degree or so and he slept fitfully all night. In the morning he seemed a bit better but I called 111 first thing as he was not prone to temperatures generally and his temperhad been over 40 when he woke in the night and was variable but still spiking to 39 even with calpol and ibuprofen alternating every 2-3 hours .

I answered all the questions and was assessed. They told me to watch and wait, give calpol etc and call back if it got worse . This was around midday by the time they had done the callback assessment

By 3pm that day I had had to call an ambulance as he had a seiizure for the first ( and thankfully only) time ever

In the end he was diagnosed with viral meningitis, though they were worried about bacterial meningitis before they did a spinal tap test. He was in hospital for several days and very poorly for at least 3 weeks after that . Luckily it was only viral and he made a full recovery but the speed with which he deteriorated even at 9 years old was terrifying . As parents we do the best we can.

Hope your ds improves soon op.
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Sorry to hear that - this was my concern upon seeing this post.

small children go downhill very quickly. My LO had gastroenteritis over Christmas break and we did all we could until she started puking water back up...I wasn't sure about A&E as it can be a long wait in an uncomfortable waiting area where they can't rest, and that feels counterproductive.

We got our LO there just in time as it went from bad to really bad very quickly, massive glucose drop, temp spike and 3 more rounds of vomiting and they really struggled to get a vein, blood was "sticky" and she was described as "dry" but the turnaround was also insanely quick once the fluids were up and in they were eating and talking and laughing again.
The nurse said they see it all the time with little ones, it can very literally go from ok to needs intervention in 15 minutes!

Hope your LO is feeling better and you all manage to get some rest.

"this is in Ireland so we aren't as hesitant in bringing sick kids to the hospital"

I wouldn't describe English people as hesitant in bringing their sick children to hospital either. Odd generalisation.

I'm glad your daughter was seen to and improved quickly.

And the way we are brainwashed that you’re not to go to A&E unless it’s an emergency as the message is don’t abuse the system which most people aren’t. And in some cases people are not qualified to realised that their beloved is a case of life and death like the OP.
People are reluctant to ring the GP because they get fobbed off / no appointments/ you get no where….
This culture of patient blaming and bashing for using the NHS needs to stop right now and NHS WALK IN centres need to be redeployed to help people access better medical care.
We deserve better than this!!

Op i absolutely feel for you as we had a very similar situation. Ds was around 2, fell poorly with vomiting (and he is our sicky child so this wasnt unusual), would only sip water, low temp only, and would just lay and rest. 3rd into 4th day we noticed he was then less responsive, really sleepy, not completely out of it but definitely not himself, took him to a&e where they confirmed he had flu. There were no other classic symptoms. But the thing that made him so very unwell was dehydration, we were shocked as he had done nothing but drink water. He similarly had an overnight stay with IV and was back to 80% himself in 24 hours. Wishing the same outcome for you.

Fwiw my dd fell ill on recent weeks with similar symptoms, we reacted much faster in light of this and was absolutely poo poo'd by the GP who said the whole give it 24 hours if not better consider going to a&e.... She was fine in the end improving within that time. but I didn't feel from my perspective I could have told the difference. Kids are very difficult to read at times. If in doubt, check, but dont beat yourself up, we are all human and trying to do our best.

Your little one is in the right place. Children deteriorate quickly, as in this case. Hopefully, once his temperature is under control and he's hydrated, he'll start feeling better.

UPDATE - My son has tonsillitis which explains the not wanting to eat and slight fever. He was dehydrated and they couldn’t get a canular in for an IV after 7 attempts! In the end they just gave us a schedule to get him to drink water every 2 hours which I wish they just suggested in the first place but it is what it is. I have just called my husband and our boy is absolutely fine, no temperature, had a really good sleep, drinking lots and lots of water, has eaten some quavers crisps so that’s something at least. We will be given antibiotics to give to him which is going to be a nightmare and might have to result in forcing it in.

I am so sorry I have not been able to read all messages and reply much, I was not expecting to get as many messages as I did. It has been a real eye opener for me. As much as I do think he would have recovered at home as he was drinking and his temperature was under 39 and tonsillitis can be treated at home, at least they have been able to diagnose what was wrong so we can take the right action and he will be given antibiotics to clear it quicker. It will be straight to the GP next time no matter what x

Hi op, I don’t judge you for thinking it wasn’t as serious as it was, no high temp, still drinking water and always being led to believe no food isn’t as crucial as no water ! I probably would’ve given ice lolly’s or jelly though for some calories but the main thing is your son is okay. My dd had tonsillitis and it’s brutal, she also wouldn’t eat but again the hospital said food don’t matter 🤷‍♀️ it’s hard to know what to do for the best !

You can drink too much water though so if he's still drinking 'lots and lots' there's an issue as he could be washing electrolytes out and if they didn't manage to get an IV in then one packet of quavers isn't going to balance drinking loads of water.

Are the staff aware of how much he is drinking?

I am glad to hear he is doing ok.. Based on your update he probably would have been ok at home, but it's never worth taking the risk with young kids as they can deteriorate so quickly. Ice lollies , ice cream, yoghurt (frozen ) might be a good way of getting some sugar into him and help ease his throat.

Another poster has said the same, but if either me or husband have concerns over our child's medical state and think a GP or A&E is necessary, we would seek advice, I wouldn't dismiss my husbands concerns. Maybe you could adopt this going forward?

Wishing him a speedy recovery.

When my DC had this, she wouldn’t take the meds so my GP recommended to mix it with food so at least she was getting some. Chocolate mousse seemed to really work!

Sorry but as a parent I just do not understand why you didn’t call the GP or 111 earlier - even resisting his dad when he wanted to get medical attention! I’m very glad your son is doing ok but really think this needs to be a learning opportunity & that you should think about what fed into this. Because you are obviously not an uncaring or neglectful mother!

For instance, what was your own family’s approach to medical care? Did they tend to be unresponsive when you were ill as a child? Were you brought up to believe that illness is a weakness?

Or maybe, do you have a very literal approach to life generally, so that you rely very heavily on instructions from authority (like the NHS website)? Do you maybe have difficulty with reacting flexibly to circumstances? Do you worry about relying on your own judgment? If so can you maybe recognise this & think about ways to avoid it having negative (even dangerous) effects in future?

Why did you feel the need to get advice from strangers on a website, given such a long period of illness and your own partner’s concerns? Why did you think your partner’s worries needed in some sense to be validated by strangers who had never seen your child? Is there an issue here about not having trust in your partner (or at least more trust in ‘authority’)?

Lots to unpack here I think about why you reacted the way you did.

My mother always had a box of glucose in the pantry and when we were ill we would have either flat full fat coke or lemonade (you can make it flat by adding a teaspoon of glucose) or very dilute squash with glucose and a tiny pinch of salt. I did the same when my kids were ill. Funnily enough when my daughter was so sick with her obstruction they commented that her blood sugar and hydration were surprisingly good and I told them she'd had ice pops and dilute squash with glucose in (all of which were sicked up within the hour, but glucose absorbs very fast) and they told me it had probably prevented her collapsing.

So glad about this update ❤️ For the antibiotics, check what you can mix it with, there might be sth that your son enjoys and he won't notice it too much (yogurt, milk, chocolate milk, fruit juice...). Good luck!

I called 111 when my toddler had a virus, and he was super lethargic and barely moving.

The bitch woman who took the questions asked if he could do normal activities. I said no, he's just slumped on me watching TV with his eyes half shut. You could practically hear the eye roll as she told me that this WAS a normal activity.

Not for my son it bloody wasn't, he would normally be bouncing around, chatting, eating - even if watching TV he'd be engaged and singing etc.

Every child is different, and although I wouldn't have waited as OP did, it can be hard and subjective to judge if a child needs attention or rest.

That was my concern too, especially as they decided not to give him any fluids which seems odd to me considering how dehydrated he must've been if they were struggling to get access.

I'd hope they were monitoring his fluids if there's a concern of electrolytes imbalance and recording input/output if they've decided against giving him any fluids. Maybe they are doing that with the drinking every 2 hours schedule?

OP, I'm glad that he seems to be ok. It really is frightening how quickly they can go down hill. My son was 8 so much older and it happened incredibly fast too.

Just to say I’ve had a really similar experience with my son and ended up at A&E. The meds are a nightmare, we tried everything and actually ended up at the GP because he wouldn’t take them and I was going crazy trying to get them in him. A lovely GP and practice pharmacist showed me how to physically pin him down and get the medicine into him. It’s horrible, I hated every second of it but it’s much better than ending up in hospital. Send solidarity though, it’s brutal!

So relieved to hear he’s on the mend!

MN is full of threads complaining about A&E wait times and mums who take children with common bugs. But sometimes A&E is the only option if you live in an area with no walk-in/minor injuries and can’t get a GP appointment. A&E doctors always make the point that they’d rather see 1000 children who didn’t need to be there rather than miss the one who does.

I’ve raised 5 children, and doctors have always told me they weren’t concerned about them not eating, as long as they are drinking. It’s easy to see why people are confused about when to seek attention.

I'm glad your little one is on the mend.

Can I give a shout out to the excellent service provided by pharmacists who can now treat tonsillitis in children, amongst other things. My grandson was recently prescribed antibiotics for an ear infection . He didn't have a really high temperature, but was clearly unwell and not himself so my daughter took him to have his ears and throat checked.Last month I had antibiotics for sinusitis; both of us were seen at our local pharmacy.

It was so much quicker and more convenient than seeing our GP or having to use an out of hours service (my grandson saw them on a Sunday morning).

Glad your wee one is where he should be and hopefully on the mend.
Also, if you need to give him calpol in future you pin him down and get it done, better it be you and dp than some strangers pinning him down. There is no magic way nurses/dr's can administrate other than needing IV. X

My son has had a bowel obstruction too.

One minute it was gastroenteritis and he'd just need an overnight stay with fluids to rehydrate him and the next minute, he needed a NG tube because they couldn't stop his vomiting and then he suddenly became unresponsive and ended up needing a transfer to a hospital with a paeds intensive care. He went septic in his case.