3 year old unwell and lethargic - Husband thinks a trip to A&E is needed but I feel staying at home is best. Please help and advise

[Biosblbay]

Our 3 year old has been very unwell since Saturday late night/ early hours Sunday. He hasn’t eaten since Saturday late afternoon, refuses everything, won’t eat yogurt, toast, ice cream, no fruit, nothing, but he is drinking plenty of water. His temperature is very up and down, currently it’s 37.5. He won’t take calpol, as per my previous post it is impossible and tried every single method and way possible! He hasn’t moved in 2 days, when he tries to get up he just lays straight back down, hardly talking, sleeping lots, but still watching TV/ films and able to focus on that (not sure if this is classed as lethargic). My husband is really concerned he isn’t eating, I am not as concerned as he is drinking water still and we are only on day 2, tomorrow will be day 3. I would rather avoid A&E if it is not necessary, I don’t want to spread whatever our son has and do not want to make him feel worse.

Can I have some others input please on what is best. A little unsure what to do. Thank you

I really think the advice on "fluids" should be made clearer - that it's not simply drinking water, but sugars/salts/ electrolytes etc like dioralyte, juice etc. Before the below experience I honestly thought if they were drinking water it was ok.

I got caught out when my first daughter was 18 months old. She had 2 days of a high temperature and very limited eating (managed to maybe get a yoghurt or pancake into her, but no meals). She was taking Calpol, drinking water, and playing in between extra naps so I took a "wait and see" approach and made a GP appointment for Day 3. She woke up that morning with another temperature, drank a cup of water, and basically crashed - she was lethargic and struggled to stay awake. GP is around the corner so we called and they saw her straight away and we were sent to A&E 15 mins away. After 10 minutes waiting in A&E to be triaged, her limbs suddenly started going cold and mottled. I went back to reception to tell them something was seriously wrong. Within 5 minutes we were in a cubicle and they were trying (and failing) to get a line in for fluids. She was extremely dehydrated, high ketones, low sugars. I remember staring at the nurse and saying "but she drank a whole cup of water an hour ago" and her explaining to me that I should have been giving diluted juice and I was heartbroken that I'd been so stupid. I felt guilty for a long time. I have pictures of her playing from the day before she was admitted...looking unwell but alert, it just all happened so fast.

She ended up being in hospital for a week until everything stabilised. Scariest thing was it actually took her 3 or 4 days to really come around despite the fluids as the (fairly common) virus she had was still working through her and she developed tonsillitis and diarrhea during those days.

Sorry for taking up the thread with this long post, but from the OP's first posts I was reminded of my own experience and I was sad (but relieved!) to hear the child is in hospital now with a very similar profile to my daughter. Hindsight is always 20:20. I'm WAY more cautious now and when my kids are sick they get all the juice and biscuits they want 🙈Thankfully we haven't been to A&E again since (2 years ago now) but I have a very low threshold for seeing the GP.

My gp is never concerned if my toddler DS has been off food for a few days when unwell? They’re mainly worried about wet nappies etc. Glad you’ve been seen so quickly OP but I don’t think you’ve necessarily been too relaxed about it.

Yes I have read the thread, I’m just pointing out not eating for 3 days isn’t a huge concern and pretty normal when children are ill.

Hope he (and you) are ok. FWIW I wouldn’t have gone to A&E either. I’d have given rehydration drinks, juice, soup and waited. But I sounds like I would have been wrong.

The complete lack of energy the op describes is what would have me worried and wanting him seen, and you’d do the basic dehydration tests too and take him in then also.

OP thinking of you and hope they get access and fluids into him quickly. So sorry for you all.

To those giving you a hard time not recognising what they clearly see as an emergency. Aside from ‘fuck off this isn’t the time to be patronising’, there are myriad of complex reasons we don’t all rush to ED - we are drilled on only attending if it’s a real emergency (quite rightly), we don’t want to be one of ‘those’ overbearing parents and therefore it’s hard to judge when it is right (even doctors get this wrong), we hear horror stories constantly (mostly on here) about how awful it is. All this our overrides our parental instincts.

OP, I am well versed in the sepsis pathway - have been for years and I knew the red flags. My son got sick when he was 18 months old - he was poorly but I waited and waited to take him in (not wanting to cause a fuss or use ED inappropriately) - he was really poorly (with sepsis markers) by the time I did, though made a full recovery. I now take them whenever I worry (and thus have a very low threshold for seeking help). Sure you’ll learn about the red flags but don’t beat yourself up in the meantime.

For anyone interested there are various studies on giving diluted apple juice for mild dehydration. E.g. pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/news/diluted-apple-juice-an-alternative-to-oral-rehydration-fluid-for-children-with-mild-gastroenteritis

We were recommended by a paediatric A&E consultant to use it prevent dehydration after our DC was sent to A&E by the GP when refusing to eat due to a sore throat and had become very lethargic and floppy.

We've used it ever since for when he is off his food for a stomach bug or sore throat and it has served us well.

Yes I've been surprised too. Little kids blood sugar dips rapidly without food - going three days without food and not getting checked by the Dr is unthinkable to me! Of course he will be severely dehydrated - you get hydration (and all the necessary salts, sugars etc you need to stay stable) from food.

I really hope anyone in future who finds this thread takes their child in to be checked if they stop eating - and I hope OP's son makes a full and quick recovery x

Some of these responses are unnecessarily cruel. You can’t win on here. Most of the time posters are admonishing people for being time wasters.

I hope your little boy is better soon

I hope your little one gets better soon OP. Hopefully they have the line in now and able to give them some fluids.

My daughter had scarlet fever a couple of months ago and it was really scary watching her get poorly so quickly.

Hope your boy gets better quickly.

FWIW I probably would have done exactly what you did. Try not to beat yourself up about it. You acted on the best knowledge you had. You asked for advice and then acted on it. You've done great.

Also fwiw I also had a Calpol refuser when she was little. She did grow out of it eventually, but before then the suppositories were a godsend. You can only get them via prescription (or over the internet - but it's costly) in the UK. There's a weird stigma about them, especially as they're readily available around Europe. IMO they're a much better option than pinning your kid down only for them to spit out the medicine or throw up due to the extreme upset you just put them through.

Didn’t want to just read and run as am similar thing happened to my little girl and it was dehydration from a sick bug that lasted 6 days. I’d actually taken her to hospital 4 days in a row to be dismissed and told if it lasts another day bring her back and we’ll definitely put her on a drip, only to have the same thing again. Eventually tried a different hospital who were appalled at the original hospital and immediately rushed her through, put her on a drip and kept her in over night. The drip helped her so much, so hope the same happens with your little one! She was knocked off her feet for a couple of weeks after though so I’d be prepared to take things slowly with him and chill out for a little while!

I always give 50/50 juice when my little one is unwell and not eating properly. I try dioralyte but she hates it! This is after noro and not being able to keep milk down saw her with low blood sugar (she seemed fine but luckily I had taken her to be checked as she was only 8 months old). Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Wishing your son better, OP.

Sending best wishes for a speedy recovery 💐

OP you did everything right.
I would not have been concerned about tired and lack of appetite for a couple of days, but you called 111 at the right time and took the right action.

Your DS is where he needs to be and they will have him sorted in no time, I am sure.

I don’t like being negative on threads like this, but no, OP didn’t do everything right 😵‍💫😵‍💫 A child who has not moved for 2 days is very seriously unwell and at minimum needs to see the GP.

I’m rooting for your DS @Biosblbay

My teenage DD ending up in hospital very recently with starvation keto acidosis as she was ill and couldn’t keep anything down-she was dehydrated with collapsed veins too.

With the right treatment your DS should make a full recovery and be home soon.

wishing you and your family the best of luck.

Don’t risk your child's health on Google. Listen to your husband, recognise your child isn’t improving and take action quickly. They can’t advocate for themselves - it’s up to you to help them. I hope your child gets better but learn from this for the future.

A&E fgs.

eta thank god you finally went.
wishing the best for your dc.

The thing for me that stuck out of your op was
'He hasnt moved for 2 days'
That is NOT normal

Hope he gets the treatment he needs fast

How helpful do you think this is at this point? Or are you having fun?

OP - really hope your little one is feeling better soon.

Don’t worry about taking young kids to a&e. They come first.

111 sent my 2 year old to a&e today after having a fever for less than 24 hours, plus other symptoms. I knew something was wrong with her. Turns out she needed antibiotics and also had low oxygen.

I only got sent to a&e today because the GP had no appointments and the pharmacist refused to check her over because she is too young.

But yes also agree i would have contacted GP way earlier.

Hope DS is doing better op.

We are learning from this thread that things were not done right though, since DS is on a drip with dehydration.

I hope your little boy is ok OP! My son was also dehydrated when he was 3, it was a similar type of bug and I was unsure about A&E as well but when kids are too lethargic to sit up then it's a big red flag. Normally kids that age have up and down moments, even with flu they should have periods during the day where they walk around for a bit or play. They struggled to find my son's veins too but managed on the 3rd attempt and he was hugely improved after the drip. It's really important to not only drink water but also get some sugar and electrolytes, minerals, anything to bind the water otherwise you can be drinking gallons of plain water and still become dehydrated.

My DS also will not take calpol so we’ve been prescribed a rectal suppository version which works wonders. Only found out after we took him to A&E when he was seriously unwell before Christmas with breathing difficulties and reduced oxygen levels.