4 year old won’t sleep no matter what we’re doing please help

[Hi1993]

Hello, me and my DH have been struggling the last month/few weeks, our 4 year old will not sleep no matter what.
She gets up around 7 on school days and 8ish on weekends but isn’t going to sleep until 12-1am some times later.
We try and wear her out like going to the park, on her bike, going for a walk, playing in the house. We start the bed time routine around 6ish, food, bath most nights, snacks just to fill her up, stories, cuddles you name it and she’s still awake and running on little sleep. She won’t listen, she’s in and out of bed every 5 minutes, when we tell her to get back to bed (even if we’re in there cuddling with her) she’s crying saying that she can’t sleep.
Ive spoken to the health visitor about this and she’s put us on a list for a sleep coach and hasn’t really said anything else. Is anyone else going through this? Does it get better when they start full time school (she starts full time on Wednesday after being half days for a year due to our council changing it in our area) is anyone going through this at the moment? I’m so stressed she’s only having about 6-7 hours a sleep a night and I’m worried that’s not enough for her and I’m honestly like a zombie going to work and my husband too.
Thanks.

Few thoughts. Some children need little sleep, but over tiredness can look like this too.
My DD was a poor sleeper but when she got older she was able to partly explain why. She found the sensation of falling asleep really scary and was afraid she might not wake up.
She's also ASD (we didn't know this until her teens) and she needed some sensory input to help her sleep - maybe look this up. You might find it helps.
As it was, we tried a weighted blanket and it worked like a dream.
Any possibility of her being ND?
DD found also she got anxious about sleeping which made it harder to sleep - I told her that rest was almost as good as sleep which was reassuring and she felt less wound up.

@Beamur hi! Thanks for for reply I really appreciate it!
Yeah she tells us she ‘doesn’t know how to fall asleep’ and it just goes from there she doesn’t say much about finding it scary that she doesn’t like the dark (I’m 30 and don’t like the dark either haha) The only thing I can really think of is that she might have ADD/ADHD? My DH has ADHD and explained that he was like this as a kid too when it came to bed time (I can’t relate I’ve always loved my sleep and still do haha) so maybe that has something to do with it? I’m not diagnosing her by any means I’m just putting 2 and 2 together possibly making 4 maybe 5 some times!
She’s a brilliant child she loves school, playing, she’s just so lush and then it comes to bed time and she just refuses to sleep at all! I’m just running on fumes and there’s no time for me and DH recently at all, can’t even sit down and watch the telly for half hour before bed anymore! She used to be a brilliant sleeper but the last few weeks have been a bit stressful.

If she previously slept ok but isn't now, maybe (fingers crossed) it is temporary - out of normal routine with Christmas? Unwell at all? Developmental changes can disrupt behaviours too.
But maybe keep an eye on any other behaviours. Even if she isn't ND it might be worth looking at bedtime strategies for children with ADHD?
My DD always seemed to ramp up at bedtime instead of calming down! Took ages for her to fall asleep. She didn't get upset, but was an absolute master at keeping me around 😄

My 5 year old has ADHD for sure, and this sounds exactly like him this. I don’t know how he functions, won’t stay in own bed at night either once he’s sleeping, he comes into our bed, which disrupts our sleep. We’ve barely any time alone and we have two other children too. All of my kids are ND it’s really hard tbh, and I’ve zero patience left. So you have my sympathy

It sounds like you are starting bedtime too late for a 4 year old. I would aim to have a 4 year old in bed alone by 6, so starting bed and bath at 6 seems very late for such a young child. If this due to work?
I second the weighted blankets- great for neurodiverse people.

When my children were young I would play an audiobook on Alexa in their room at bedtime. I would play it for a decent amount of time for your little one as she takes a while to fall asleep such as 45 minutes or an hour. Don’t play the book at any other time so she looks forward to bedtime to hear the book.

If she isn’t asleep by the end of the hour then she lays there bored. She can choose to fall asleep enjoying a good audiobook, or she can choose to lay still in bed bored for hours. I know which I would choose.
If she has ADHD this will keep her hyperactive mind
busy while she’s drifting off too!

Thanks all for the replies! Yes due to work by the time we all get home we’re more or less starting bed time when we walk through the door and I want to spend a bit of time with her before we start the routine like giving her a chance to play or go to the park if she wants too, I’ve changed my hours in work now as I started back this week so we will be home earlier so I can start the routine that little bit earlier too.
I don’t know if this is me being stupid (probably) but are people who have ADHD neurodiverse? I’m a bit uneducated! She’s brilliant during the day, she’s so witty and funny, she listens to us, good with her food, very active loves to try different things but then it’s like she switches to a different kid around bed time but it’s only been the last few weeks where as before this she was sleeping by 7:30-8 latest and sleeping all night until it was time to get up, so I’m starting to think it might be the Xmas period and out of routine and hopefully she will get back to bed time like before, I don’t want to say she has something when it’s only been a few weeks rather than her whole life so maybe it is a phase but I think it’s hit us hard because she was such a brilliant sleeper up until only the last few weeks 😪

I think 6 is too early to start the bedtime routine. She's simply not tired enough, which is leading to sleep resistance, which leads to overtiredness.

Most children of this age need around 10-12 hours of sleep a night. If she's getting up at 7 (or 8) then at the upper end her bedtime would be 7PM and at the lower end, which is more likely, it would be 8 or 9.

I think try for a slightly later bedtime to allow more sleep pressure to build up.