I don’t know how to handle my five year old

[milkandteabiscuits]

Ds is five, and the older he gets the harder I’m finding him in some ways (only in some.)

He can be very stroppy, sullen, angry and aggressive: not physically but in his mannerisms and general sort of demeanour. At the moment, I feel like I can’t go anywhere with him without an altercation of some sort happening and in the interests of fairness a lot of the time these aren’t totally his fault but the way he goes about it is, or can be.

So to give some examples from this holiday alone

we were at a small soft play and a group of children were sat at the top making it difficult (though not impossible) to get by. One of them came to me complaining ds had ‘kicked her foot’ - transpired to try to get them to move, ds had been shoving against their feet with his feet. I did point out to them that they shouldn’t have been blocking the way and told ds he shouldn’t be using his feet. Ds immediately becomes truculent and ill tempered but also isn’t staying still to actually speak to me; just getting lots of ‘not FAIR’ as he walks away.

at a museum another child is admittedly hogging a piece of equipment but ds just goes over straight away and starts trying to get the kid to come off. This happens a lot, it’s as if he can’t bear to wait (yet in other contexts can be very patient and has stood in queues for long periods.) It happened at the park the other day: I was there with a friend and ds was just constantly trying to get her child off the equipment so he could use it and then becomes morose and sulky when told to knock it off and wait his turn.

I guess I am worried because I feel like these behaviours were socially acceptable in a toddler but really should have been left behind the best part of two years ago. It’s hard to understand: at school he seems popular, no issues with friendships and was the same at nursery, has a good crowd of friends he’s still in touch with. And sometimes we can go to soft play and he’ll make friends immediately. It seems to come in cycles … his behaviour generally has been challenging this holiday, a lot of shouting, anger, had started to hiss at me (!) like a cat when he had been told off.

How normal is it? I do feel like I’m walking on eggshells with him a bit T the moment

Have you taught him how to talk to other children and deal with these situations?

Do you do much turn taking at home to model the behaviour?

It's tricky because the soft play example is standard 5yo meeting older kids. The park one sounds a bit more annoying. At the park I'd have said "we wait our turn". Then "if you keep pushing in we'll go home" and followed up if needed.

I’ve certainly tried to but it’s very difficult because it relies on him actually listening to me, which is a real challenge at the best of times. Sometimes a reminder before we go in seems to work well, like ‘if someone isn’t being kind, come and find mummy’ sort of thing but it’s harder when he’s technically in the right but goes about it the wrong way. Or when (like with the kid hogging the equipment) he doesn’t give you a chance to deal with it!

I do do this, but as you can imagine it leads to further ill temper, anger and frustration. Obviously that can’t sometimes be helped -
he can’t just shove in - but I actually want to instil a sense of fairness and respect in him which doesn’t come when he feels ‘wronged’ (even if he has not been!)

It is really hard at that age as they're learning the laws of the jungle and you want them to stick up for themselves, which it sounds like he is. When he's alone, let him deal with stuff unless he complains to you tends to be my way to operate.

However the park where you can see, I'd be more proactive.

He definitely does - sometimes too well! It’s hard because I have the opposite personality and tend to be quite mild mannered so my instinct is to just leave people to it. And he puts me in a difficult position; today for instance I did actually tell the child hogging the equipment to get off it and let someone else have a turn (far more nicely than that) but I don’t want ds thinking he can just go up to somebody and start whingeing at them and they’ll cede defeat, so to speak.

Shoving someone with your feet IS kicking. Bossing other children off equipment IS poor behavior. Hissing at your mother when she talks to you is unacceptable. You seem to be minimising his behaviour constantly. The behaviour you described isn’t behaviour that was acceptable at 2, but at 2 you would presumably be at his side making him behave which is what you need to do now.

Model the behaviours and speech you would like him to emulate apl the time. And get even more exercise in to him. A well exercised child, especially boys, is a far calmer child. Balance this with not letting them get overstimulated.

I actually feel like I’m quite hard on him. It is kicking but there is a distinction between the sort of kick you’d do to say a football and pushing your foot against someone else’s. If I’d said ‘he kicked them’ it wouldn’t be totally accurate. Just trying to explain what actually happened.

I haven’t said the bossing about isn’t poor behaviour either. It is, I agree, and I’m trying to address it: that’s why I’m posting here. I am ‘making him behave’, hence he was told off, told to knock it off, etc. All fine. But ultimately I don’t want to have to keep doing that. I want him to have a sense of fairness and respect for others which is what’s troubling me. A big problem is sometimes people are too nice - ds goes up and starts whingeing and before I can get him away someone has said ‘oh come on toby, let this little boy have a go!’ Which is very sweet but actually he needs to know the world doesn’t revolve around him.

He literally can’t have much more exercise @GrannyTeapot . I’m quite happy with how much he has.

Pushing with feet or hands or elbows or shoulders isn’t ok. You might not call it kicking but the child it happened to did because SHE didn’t like it and it was done with his foot. Bottom line if you wouldn’t be treated like that by another adult in the park he shouldn’t be doing it to another child. By all means say no and punish him but really you need to be teaching him what to do, rather than telling him what not to do.

My 5 yo boy can be very stroppy and sullen and moody and emotional. It’s exhausting at times. He fights and bickers a lot with his younger sibling.

he isn’t as forward as yours eg at the soft play but can be really snappy and snarky when talking to us. I’ve really struggled with it and first chastised him every time and told him to speak nicely. However more recently when pondering it I think it’s hard for give year old to reframe what he says. So now I say DS I don’t think you meant to x in that way. I think you meant to say Y. Try again nicely please. So sort of modelling the behaviour. It’s had far better results. But it’s relentless.

he can also strop and stomp. I try to ‘make fun’ of it rather that getting angry as that’s got me no where. I say oh no the funky chicken is out again and copy him 9/10 he laughs and we move on for 5 min. Then we go again….

HUGE feelings at this age for sure!!

Personally if he's behaving like this towards other children, being bullish to get his own way, I would warn him first that its not acceptable and if he kicks off straight home.

Any stropping, stomping or hissing ( wtaf) and he will be grounded for the next occasion( party, day out) and told why.

He's clearly struggling to be patient and emotionally regulate
I always found by the end of Christmas term mine were absolutely exhausted and over stimulated .
We kept things very light on the outings other than walks/ park .
Eta I meant to say I felt they needed time to really rest, chill particularly as Christmas can be overwhelming also.

@cheeseonsofa the issue with that is it leads to further resentment and means our relationship deteriorates. That used to be my line but it actually doesn’t help anything and makes things worse I’d say. I’m trying to understand a bit more, see both sides, not assume ds is the ‘bad’ one. Which absolutely isn’t to say he is the ‘good’ one, just that he generally isn’t solely to blame.

Thanks @oustedbymymate . It’s hard, isn’t it? Sometimes he can be lovely, both in and out of the home, but this holiday has definitely been a challenge. I don’t know where the anger has come from but I hope it goes soon.

Pull him up on poor behaviour, every time.
Praise him whenever you see him getting it right.
Remind him what to do/say before going into the situation: "say excuse me if you have to squeeze past people" or whatever. If he can't be relied on to wait his turn, supervise him.

It's exhausting, but consistency of message works. If he gets grumpy with you, that's okay: you're his parent, not his friend. It might be worth asking his teacher what methods are used in school: if you can use the same phrasing that could be helpful.

FWIW it sounds like you are doing this anyway. Keep at it, it will pay off eventually!

My six year old has been hard work this holidays too - and weirdly, has started hissing like a cat when he's cross. It must be a school thing. I'm very unimpressed and have refused to engage with it other than to tell him it's rude and if he keeps hissing he won't get X or we won't go to Y.

Soft play is tricky, he wasn't behaving well but neither were the other kids. I leave mine to it (obvs he is a bit older) as I think they need to sort themselves out and learn the laws of the jungle. If they kick they'll probably get kicked back. If he were really aggressive or hurt someone we'd go straight home, no discussion.

Definitely a lot of big feelings over these holidays! I'm looking forward to getting back into the school routine.

I think you need to be proactive in dealing with it when it happens. It's not OK for your DS to kick someone to get them to move out of his way. You need to tell him off and explain what he can do instead- like asking them to move. If he refuses to listen to you whilst you are trying to explain this to him, then you take him to one side and explain to him that you will have to leave if he is kicking other children because it isn't OK and it isn't safe. Next time you watch him more closely if possible (not easy in the big soft plays) and if you see a situation developing like a kid blocking the way you can step in and say "ask him politely to move so you can get past". It's not OK for your son to push another kid off something at the playground - you could intervene at this point and explain he needs to ask if he can have a turn? If the other child says no, I'd usually speak the parent if they're around and make a point of them taking turns. Kids learn from you.

I think I was fairly proactive. I told ds very clearly and firmly it wasn’t acceptable to use his feet to move people and he was told if it happened again we’d go home. However, rather than taking it on board he gets stroppy, argues back, whinges … it’s hard to know whether it’s gone in or not really.

The whole reason I was able to deal with it is because I was keeping an eye - which no other parent was! It’s really help with the general attitude I’m struggling with. We don’t seem to have nice conversations. Ideally I’d be able to communicate a bit better where we acknowledge unfairness in others but also not wanting to put yourself in the wrong.

Keep reinforcing his good behaviour. Do it on an evening when you’re all relaxed, eating dinner for example. Find a small thing he did and build him up. My kids are teenagers now but I frequently bring up positive things they’ve done to share with my husband in front of them. Telling them how proud I am. I have also always talked positively about them when they’re in earshot and they think I’m having a private conversation. They start to believe it and become the wonderful person you’ve told them they are.

• not always this easy though with children with specific needs

The attitude (hissing, walking away while being spoken to etc) would get some calm down time from me. 5 minutes of sitting out to calm down. Then we can talk about it - including acknowledging the child's feelings when the negative behaviour happened. No shouting, cuddling if the child would like that (I have one who does, one who usually doesn't). He's being really rude to you but it doesn't sound like you're speaking to him about that at all.

Do you do anything together just the two of you? My eldest is more rude when they're feeling not quite right and in need of connection. A cafe date where you just sit and chat. The library. Football. Reading just one to one (we read all the time but I have more than one so usually this is a group thing). Anything really where he has your full attention for half an hour or so.

Also agree this holiday and time of year is tough as a parent! Kids are wired but also exhausted.

Really you need to harden up to his stropping
Of course he's going to get mardy when told off but he has to learn consequences.
Mine would be left to " have a think" and calm down.
Tbf the soft play thing sounds like a six of one, half a dozen of another situation and I only went went once or twice as I found it pretty feral.

Until he learns the consequences then you will either have to intervene or it will continue

It’s really help with the general attitude I’m struggling with. We don’t seem to have nice conversations.

You mean when he's getting a telling-off, or the rest of the time? If he's grumpy when you tell him off, that's to be expected. It's not the time to expect a useful conversation, that might come later the same day when he's got over it a bit. Don't try and have a convoluted conversation about feelings and attitudes when what you're really saying is "wait your turn, no kicking allowed". Keep the boundary for his behaviour clear, not woolly.

Do you ever give him some simple responsibility at home? Basic things like laying the table for dinner, counting out the right number of forks for everyone, emptying the dishwasher with you. It's an easy way to set him up so you can give him praise. Most people like to feel like they're a respected and valued part of a team, and children are no different. It can help offset the telling-off when that happens, and hopefully he won't descend into such a grumpy state so easily or for so long.

Just because your child wants something doesn’t mean someone else needs to stop their turn, sounds like you need parenting lessons, see what’s available in your area, and speak to school to see what’s available to help your son navigate everyday problems.

Hi. I would suggest you get him assessed by a speech and language therapist. They don't just deal with speech - it's also about interactions with others. Some children struggle to understand social cues and use inappropriate strategies.

My daughter as ADHD and ASD and she hiss like a cat are you sure he doesn't have one of these things

I told ds very clearly and firmly it wasn’t acceptable to use his feet to move people and he was told if it happened again we’d go home. However, rather than taking it on board he gets stroppy, argues back, whinges … it’s hard to know whether it’s gone in or not really.
So did you go home?. I would have removed him immediately, as soon as the stroppy whingey answering back little sod opened his mouth - trust me it will soon go in. I would not be interacting with this behavior, I would silently remove him very firmly. I would certainly not argue with a child of his age - he has got you over a barrel. He knows exactly what he is doing.😡