Help with behaviour

[Geggygoo]

Can anyone give me advice on disciplining my 4yo?

He is potentially neurodivergent and school are starting to notice particularities and are starting some in school assessments. I just feel so out of control with him at the moment and like he is just an unhappy little boy who doesn't know how to cope with his emotions.

The difficulty I have is the there is no consequence that he cares enough about to change his behaviour.

Things I've tried:

Giving no air time or leaving the room when he cries/whinges over something that is inconsequential. He just follows continuing to cry and then gets angry and ends up hurting sibling or me.

Putting up in room has same outcome.

There is absolutely no point in trying to reason, it fuels the flames.

Removing iPad. He doesn't care, his iPad is currently under lock down and he hasn't even asked for it.

Have tried positive sticker charts/rewards. If you set something like that up he becomes instantly obsessed with it and wants multiple stickers immediately and wants the reward immediately and then it descends into full blown tantrum/chaos.

The main behaviours that need disciplining are
Whinging/crying over the smallest thing.

Hurting his brother

He doesn't listen but I can cope with this, I think there is more to it and will see what comes of school assessments.

I really want to help him become a happier and content child.

What is causing the behaviour?

The crying could be over anything. Yesterday it was the blanket kept slipping on the den he built. It was the toy man wasn't sitting quite right in the vehicle. It was that he was hungry (he can't just say mummy I'm hungry, it's straight to full hysterics) it was that he got cold outside.

The hurting sibling could be just that he is in his space, not even touching his toys or interfering with his game. He pushes or hits out at him. His brother is starting to become scared of him and runs for me when he comes near him.

The main behaviours that need disciplining are Whinging/crying over the smallest thing.

Trying to 'discipline' here is inappropriate, 'whinging/crying' is normal behaviour in young children. Have you tried giving him a short hug and then distracting with something else.

At just four, any hurting of his brother must be prevented or stopped instantly. But if he does that after inappropriate discipline the first thing to try is adjusting your techniques.

This behaviour doesn’t sound especially ND to me, four year olds still melt down, whinge and don’t listen and hurt their siblings - that’s all normal; and you don’t discipline a child for being unhappy

You can parent this with patience and skill.

he may simply be attention seeking - kids this age are very selfish and even negative attention feeds their need to be centre of the universe

why on earth do you ignore his behaviour? Leaving the room when someone is crying is a bit cruel isn’t it?

You make it clear that hurting another person is not acceptable.

Get down on his level and ask him if he feels sad. Then ask if he feels angry. Then ask if he feels bored. Then if it’s a screechy “no” say “ahh then I know what, you need a hug”! And hug him (even if he doesn’t want one). If he resists, turn it into a tickle session and become “the tickle monster” and hopefully he will soon be giggling or at least running away and distracted

Play board games a lot more - helps with taking turns and delayed gratification and disappointment. Snakes and ladders in good for this

Thank you. Yes I agree these aren't necessarily nd behaviours. These are just the two behaviours I want to deal with at the moment. I know that crying and whinging are typical of this age but it feels like he is constantly upset. He gets a lot of love, patience and understanding. I just find it difficult to see him so worked up all the time.

No advice op but I’m going through the exact same with my just turned 5 year old! I literally could have wrote this myself. We have a meeting with the senco at school next week too. I’m just generally exhausted with his whole behavior it’s constant emotional outburst from morning until night at the minute and consequences don’t seem to work for us either as he’s usually too distressed for me to explain the consequence and why it’s happening. I hope you get some advice x

Have you tried talking to him about how he is feeling? You've said he doesn't know how to cope with his emotions,that's something you need to teach skills for, rather than discipline. Showing them how to stay calm and talking them through the situation..
I try and say something that shows I see what they seem to be feeling "oh man, your den won't stay up, that's frustrating. We need to find a way to hold it up" and if my children speak in an overly harsh way, like yelling about being hungry or something, i'll model what i'd like them to say "please may I have some crackers Mum" or something rather than scolding them for saying it wrong. If he's just feeling frustrated or sad, walking away or sending him to his room is only going to make him feel more sad/angry, not teach him how to manage better.

I have a autistic child, well maybe 2 but 1 diagnosed. All the professionals will tell you the whinging shouldn’t be punished. You need to try and predict the sensory issues and teach different ways of dealing with his emotions. If he is ND he probably has poor introception and just doesn’t know he is hungry.

If he hides his emotions he will be just as upset but not showing it.

@Catmother20 it's the constant emotional outburst that I find so difficult too. It's from the moment he wakes up in the morning.

I have tried everything. All the positive parenting out there. Modelling, supporting etc

I think disciplining maybe wasn't the right word to choose as it sounds harsh, but I feel like the behaviour needs to be addressed.

If he's constantly upset, either there is an underlying cause, which you should try to work out. Or he is going through a phase, which you should deal with by being kind and then distracting.

Discipline has no place either way and is likely making him much more upset.

Did you have a strict upbringing yourself? If so you might need to unlearn some of that. There are books about child development that might help you. He's very young, he's only four. It's important to have realistic expectations.

@JinglingtoChristmas thank you. I think you are right about predicting the sensory issues and trying to prevent the meltdown before it happens. But that is easier said than done!

He needs to be taught the skills to recognise and deal with his emotions but it will take years. It sounds like the biggest issue is you being overwhelmed by them which is understanable but you need to work on your skills here, tips and how to address your sensory overload.

@JinglingtoChristmas you may have hit the nail on the head there. I do feel overwhelmed and have sensory overload. Any tips?

This but maybe a shock or it may not, but 90% of autistic people will have at least one autistic parent so it maybe that his behaviour is more overwhelming for you.

• Try to remember he is having a hard time not giving you a hard time.
• Looks for patterns where things make be difficult and try and regulate yourself before hand. For me school pick up is difficult so I stop and have a 5 minute cuppa before I go.
• Ear loops or headphones with music/podcast
• keep your general stress levels down. Easier said than done with kids if that age and one potentially ND. But eat well, sleep well (if possible), drink water, exercise and see friends.
• Learn breathing techniques, practice when you’re not stressed and teach them to the kids when their regulated
• Look at other things which increase your stress and overwhelm and try and reduce them. For me not having clothes which were comfy but looked good, losing my keys/ear pods, not getting time by myself and not planning the week ahead.

If anything else comes to mind I will come back and post it.

Frozen 2 has a good song about feeling big emotions but just focusing on doing the "next right thing": "break it down to the next step, the next choice"... The trick is 1. Practicing thinking of what the "next right thing" is. 2. Remembering to do it when emotions run high and 3. Acknowledging that this is even what grown-ups use to solve problems. For 1, we went through scenarios that were often triggering (like getting dressed) when she was calm and got her to think of the next step and what she would do if things went wrong. For 2, we played the song whenever a breakdown was imminent, during whining related to being unable to solve a problem themselves, or when we were entering a situation where we felt this might happen. For 3, talk through this kind of thing for you: ugh, I'm tired but I must make dinner. I'm going to remind myself of those song lyrics and then do the next right thing and stand up and go to the kitchen. The result is that my eldest DD doesn't melt down for previous triggers (like getting dressed), but still whinges when unexpected things go wrong, although maybe a little less. I'm hoping that this gives her concrete tools to problem-solve.

@Geggygoo @JinglingtoChristmasi think you’ve both hit the nail on the head for me too. I feel the same as you op I’m constantly overstimulated and anxious about what his behaviour is going to be like today. School mornings are especially hard, he doesn’t understand why we need to leave by a certain time, the school uniform is uncomfortable so sometimes he’s taken it off the minute I turn my back so I’m fighting him to put it back on, then it’s tears and tantrums all the way to school. By the time I get him in the classroom I feel like I’ve ran a marathon.

What do you have to do after the school run? Do you need to be some where for a set time?

Get him acceptable for him clothes that are similar looking to uniform. With my first child I followed all the uniform rules and stressed about being late and it has made things so much worse for DD1. DD2 has bigger sensory issues but I have bought her black leggings and long sleeved white T shirts, let her not wear underwear and it’s so much better for all of us.

Also get as much ready the night before, make sure you have plenty of time, have a visual timetable for DS. Work out your morning routine so all adults know what their doing and when.

Thanks @JinglingtoChristmas that's really helpful and I will be referring back as these ideas could really help.

@workloadBalance I will check this out!

@Catmother20 yeh we have sensory issues with the uniform but since I introduced a reusable tick off list with all the things we need to do before we leave it has made a huge difference. He loves ticking off each thing and it keeps him focused.

Our hardest times are the evenings.